Chances Harsin gives his post scrimmage presser via zoom from home??

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

56 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I would never say every person.  There are people that cannot for due to their medical history etc.  I'm certainly not counting those people in this discussion.  In fact, they are the very people that the rest of the community should consider and do everything possible to make them less likely to contract this virus.  However, people that are making that decision and don't have a medical reason to do so are simply ignoring the science and ignoring the same medical professionals that they will be depending on should they get seriously ill.  Should they get sick, they will rush to take mononeuclonal antibodies in an effort to prevent them from getting any sicker.  I hope it works and it likely will.  However, isn't it more than a little ironic that they will trust an even newer treatment and less tested emergency use therapeutic when in the months prior they refused to trust the same science and take a medication that has been thru trials and given to hundreds of millions of people around the world safely that could have done the same thing?    I don't blame anyone for taking a treatment, but the hypocrisy certainly shows what was really at the core of their earlier decision and it had nothing to do with medicine.

While I am certain there are people that fit that category, You are still lumping everyone into basically 2 different demographics which I strongly disagree. Either they haven't taken it because they have a medical reason, or they are doing it for "political" reasons. I know many people who do not fit either of those categories. They have not chosen to take the jab because they do not trust it enough, they aren't willing to take the risk of known problems and unknown problems with the jab, or many other reasons. Some folks have had Covid and feel the risk of the shot is worse than Covid. There is nothing political about that. There are also medical professionals who do not recommend the jab. 

I think the people advocating for the vaccine have made it more political than the people choosing not to take it. At least that's what my own eyes have seen. I see people all the time saying things like..."When it was Trumps Vaccine they didn't care, but now they do..blah blah blah". That isn't true either. Most people that do not want to take it felt the same way when President Trump was in office. 

The other thing I notice, People who advocate for everyone to take the shot go about it completely wrong. No ground is going to be made with anyone by telling them they are an idiot, anti-vaxxer, Mu Freedums crowd, and all the other 100s of names I have seen here and other places. That of course is nothing new, though. Regardless which side you may fall on, that doesn't fix anything. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Among white people, the divide along party lines is significant. But there are a ton of non-white people not getting vaccinated for non-political reasons, too. So no, it is not completely political.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

While I am certain there are people that fit that category, You are still lumping everyone into basically 2 different demographics which I strongly disagree. Either they haven't taken it because they have a medical reason, or they are doing it for "political" reasons. I know many people who do not fit either of those categories. They have not chosen to take the jab because they do not trust it enough, they aren't willing to take the risk of known problems and unknown problems with the jab, or many other reasons. Some folks have had Covid and feel the risk of the shot is worse than Covid. There is nothing political about that. There are also medical professionals who do not recommend the jab. 

I think the people advocating for the vaccine have made it more political than the people choosing not to take it. At least that's what my own eyes have seen. I see people all the time saying things like..."When it was Trumps Vaccine they didn't care, but now they do..blah blah blah". That isn't true either. Most people that do not want to take it felt the same way when President Trump was in office. 

The other thing I notice, People who advocate for everyone to take the shot go about it completely wrong. No ground is going to be made with anyone by telling them they are an idiot, anti-vaxxer, Mu Freedums crowd, and all the other 100s of names I have seen here and other places. That of course is nothing new, though. Regardless which side you may fall on, that doesn't fix anything. 

Don't know what I do and don't agree with but this is a good post.

[AU9377 5,370]

5 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

While I am certain there are people that fit that category, You are still lumping everyone into basically 2 different demographics which I strongly disagree. Either they haven't taken it because they have a medical reason, or they are doing it for "political" reasons. I know many people who do not fit either of those categories. They have not chosen to take the jab because they do not trust it enough, they aren't willing to take the risk of known problems and unknown problems with the jab, or many other reasons. Some folks have had Covid and feel the risk of the shot is worse than Covid. There is nothing political about that. There are also medical professionals who do not recommend the jab. 

I think the people advocating for the vaccine have made it more political than the people choosing not to take it. At least that's what my own eyes have seen. I see people all the time saying things like..."When it was Trumps Vaccine they didn't care, but now they do..blah blah blah". That isn't true either. Most people that do not want to take it felt the same way when President Trump was in office. 

The other thing I notice, People who advocate for everyone to take the shot go about it completely wrong. No ground is going to be made with anyone by telling them they are an idiot, anti-vaxxer, Mu Freedums crowd, and all the other 100s of names I have seen here and other places. That of course is nothing new, though. Regardless which side you may fall on, that doesn't fix anything. 

Why do they not trust it enough?  What is at the core of that? It isn't science.  If someone believes that a risk is present in taking the vaccine that outweighs the risk of Covid, they are not following scientific research.  I must know 7 or 8 medical doctors really well.  None of them practice with anyone or have even met another doctor that suggests to their patients, without a medical reason,  that they not take the vaccine.  One of them, who is an OB-GYN, was upset until recently that the FDA had not approved the vaccines for pregnant women.  They recently did that and she spent a Sunday afternoon making sure that every one of her patients were notified to get vaccinated asap.  Her only guidance was to take the mRNA vaccines because the only deaths that have occurred from vaccine exposure have been with the J&J vaccine due to the extremely rare blood clots that occurred with 3 women who took the vaccine.

If it hurts someone's feelings to be told that their assumptions are wrong, they honestly need to grow up.  They aren't being told because a friend or neighbor wants to hurt them.  They are trying to help them understand something that they don't have a grasp of.

[AU9377 5,370]

This may benefit those that see mRNA technology as something that has been rushed or not completely developed.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

12 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

If it hurts someone's feelings to be told that their assumptions are wrong, they honestly need to grow up.  They aren't being told because a friend or neighbor wants to hurt them.  They are trying to help them understand something that they don't have a grasp of.

I never said anything about  feelings getting hurt. I would offer the same advice back, though. If it hurts someones feelings that a person has free will to make their own choice, they need to grow up as opposed to the slander and name calling.  

 

As for what is at the core of people's hesitancy on getting the shot, I can't say for everyone. Many different reasons. Some are afraid of long term risk and effects. Some are afraid of getting blood clots or other negative effects as others have after receiving the shot. I am sure there are other reasons as well. I am just speaking to the conversations I have had. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

28 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Among white people, the divide along party lines is significant. But there are a ton of non-white people not getting vaccinated for non-political reasons, too. So no, it is not completely political.

Exactly. Yes, there are some nut jobs out there that probably aren't taking it because of political reasons. I know a hardcore nut job on the other side of the political spectrum who is not taking the shot. Several actually. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

If it hurts someones feelings that a person has free will to make their own choice, they need to grow up as opposed to the slander and name calling.  

The free will is great. The problem is that, with regards to this and any public safety issue, we are not only beholden to ourselves or our families for our decisions. In that way, this is similar to driving under the influence and any number of other personal decisions that we all generally agree are unacceptable in a society.

It *is* unique because people are being encouraged to introduce a foreign substance into their bodies; however, the risk imbalance is such that it unequivocally favors taking the vaccination.

The end result shouldn't be that anyone has to take the vaccine. But, given all the information available- which isn't nearly as fluid in terms of final conclusions as the broader discourse suggests- the burden of not taking the vaccine, imo, should fall to the unvaccinated, not those who chose the statistically better option for the safety of all.

(Not yelling at you with the bold text. More of a tl;dr for anyone skimming.)

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

The free will is great. The problem is that, with regards to this and any public safety issue, we are not only beholden to ourselves or our families for our decisions. In that way, this is similar to driving under the influence and any number of other personal decisions that we all generally agree are unacceptable in a society.

It *is* unique because people are being encouraged to introduce a foreign substance into their bodies; however, the risk imbalance is such that it unequivocally favors taking the vaccination.

The end result shouldn't be that anyone has to take the vaccine. But, given all the information available- which isn't nearly as fluid in terms of final conclusions as the broader discourse suggests- the burden of not taking the vaccine, imo, should fall to the unvaccinated, not those who chose the statistically better option for the safety of all.

(Not yelling at you with the bold text. More of a tl;dr for anyone skimming.)

This is a conundrum of sorts in my own opinion. I get the comparison you are making and it is a good one, but as you pointed out, it is a little more complex being that people are being asked to inject a foreign substance into their bodies. That goes against some peoples religions as well (another reason I forgot to mention in my earlier post). 

So let me ask you this. What burden do you feel should fall on those who choose not to take it?

In this thread, my mind continues to go back to an encounter I had at local shop one day. The shop didn't require mask, and a customer came in with a mask on and starting shaming the shopkeeper and myself for not having one on. After several minutes of back and forth, She said, "Your free will doesn't trump my right to be safe" or something along those lines. The shop keeper responded and said "You are correct. You do not have to be here in my shop. You are free to leave. You are free to stay home if you are that worried about getting covid."

Ultimately, we all have free will to do as we choose. There are, however, consequences to most choices. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Tigerpro2a said:

This is a conundrum of sorts in my own opinion. I get the comparison you are making and it is a good one, but as you pointed out, it is a little more complex being that people are being asked to inject a foreign substance into their bodies. That goes against some peoples religions as well (another reason I forgot to mention in my earlier post). 

So let me ask you this. What burden do you feel should fall on those who choose not to take it?

In this thread, my mind continues to go back to an encounter I had at local shop one day. The shop didn't require mask, and a customer came in with a mask on and starting shaming the shopkeeper and myself for not having one on. After several minutes of back and forth, She said, "Your free will doesn't trump my right to be safe" or something along those lines. The shop keeper responded and said "You are correct. You do not have to be here in my shop. You are free to leave. You are free to stay home if you are that worried about getting covid."

Ultimately, we all have free will to do as we choose. There are, however, consequences to most choices. 

Man. We found a little ledge to have a conversation on. I credit you for that.

That is a conundrum. And I side with the shopkeeper. Private businesses are their own thing and I support them doing what they need to do. So many of them found happy compromises. Curbside pickup is great. 

But schools are a different story to me and that's my current trigger. In my state, mask mandates are strictly forbidden and virtual learning is not an option, and both of my children are too young to get vaccinated. 

So should my children just be at the mercy of the unvaccinated? Or should it be the responsibility of the unvaccinated to find alternative options for *their* kids? I can see where this is a conundrum for some but it's not for me.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Man. We found a little ledge to have a conversation on. I credit you for that.

That is a conundrum. And I side with the shopkeeper. Private businesses are their own thing and I support them doing what they need to do. So many of them found happy compromises. Curbside pickup is great. 

But schools are a different story to me and that's my current trigger. In my state, mask mandates are strictly forbidden and virtual learning is not an option, and both of my children are too young to get vaccinated. 

So should my children just be at the mercy of the unvaccinated? Or should it be the responsibility of the unvaccinated to find alternative options for *their* kids? I can see where this is a conundrum for some but it's not for me.

 If people get past the judgement, often times progressive civil discourse can be had. 

As for the school issue, I get where you are coming from. That goes both ways. No, I do not feel your kids should be at the mercy of unvaccinated kids, nor do I feel as if kids should be forced to be vaccinated. IMO, this is a failure on the school board and state legislature for not providing alternative options such as virtual learning. If they can't offer virtual learning they could split the school in to two separate wings so to speak. I do understand where you are coming from there, but I don't believe a mandated vaccine is the answer. They have failed you miserably in providing options, though. 

[provibe 261]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

Of course they are making billions.  You have to admit, that isn't new for pharmaceutical companies.  This is a world wide problem.  As a country with immense wealth, we used the power that comes with that wealth to have the world's most innovative biopharmaceutical researchers all work on this simultaneously.  People constantly brag that capitalism drives innovation.  In this circumstance, that is exactly what what happened, but those innovations were begun years before Covid-19 became an issue.  The profit was intended to be found in treatment of Cancer and in how to heal human tissue to repair a damaged heart, along with many others.  

In Germany, BioNTech, which partnered with Phizer, refused to take money up front due to concerns that some could possibly view that as inappropriate and infuse politics into their scientific research.  Of course, here in the U.S., Moderna had no issue accepting $1.4 billion to fund vaccine development.  In fairness, both labs are filled with Harvard, Stanford, MIT and other world renowned researchers.

You mention the changing messages.  Honestly, would it not be more concerning if the message didn't change?  This is a virus that did not exist 2 years ago.  Everyone has been forced to learn how to fight it during the fight. Variants change that analysis even more.  It took years to develop a vaccine for polio. If it had taken years to develop this vaccine, millions more would have died by the time the first shots went in arms.  When we did have a vaccine for polio, kids lined up at schools and churches all across the country, many to be given a sugar cube that had been coated with the vaccine. There was risk involved.  Around 5 of  every million children vaccinated actually contracted polio due to the vaccine. That was an acceptable risk because without it, 5,000 of every million kids would contract Polio.

They aren't perfect, but people at the CDC and NIH simply do not have a motivation to lie to the American public.  They aren't always right, but they are the most detailed, organized agency in the world when it comes to collecting data and presenting that data to the public. They did drop the ball at the start of this, but they have recovered from that and there really is not valid reason to doubt the data they provide.  Consider this... a conspiracy to provide false data would have to include tens of thousands of individuals coming from every state and countries around the world.  It is impossible to get a room of 5 people to keep confidence, much less thousands.

So you are saying that Dr Fauci did not lie to the American people nor to Congress?

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,961]

https://cws.auburn.edu/aumc/pm/Students

"All incoming students are required to complete the electronic medical information and immunization form through Clearwave Vactrack. You will receive an email invite to your AUBURN email address. You will create an account with Clearwave and then you will receive an email to activate their account. Once the account is activated, you will receive another email for Vactrack. Login to Vactrack using the same credentials used with Clearwave.

REQUIREMENTS
Tuberculosis Testing
TB skin test OR blood test
Must be recent. No older than 6 months from the first day of class for your expected start semester
A chest x-ray is NOT an acceptable alternative
Measles Vaccine
Typically found in the form of MMR (measles, mumps, rubella)
2 doses required if received in childhood. 1 dose is acceptable if it was received recently

....."

[McLoofus 35,182]

29 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

 If they can't offer virtual learning they could split the school in to two separate wings so to speak. 

That is actually a great idea. Yes, it presents a world of problems, but we're talking about the safety of small children.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

That is actually a great idea

[tbone4jc 2,250]

6 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Yes. They absolutely have a choice whether they practice or not. They do not have to be on the team. They do not have to get free college for playing a game. 

As for them being teenagers, the majority are old enough to go fight for our country, I think that is old enough to make the choice if they want to put something into their bodies or not. 

Every one saying Harsin has "failed to lead" and "set an example". He has led and he has set an example. You just do not like the example he set. 

I respect what he has done. He is taking advice from medical professionals, and passing that info to the team to inform them to the best of his ability about the choice they need to make. I respect that much more than a coach that would force them to take it. 

 If we have to forfeit a game because of this, how will you feel about or say our starting backfield is out against say, LSU and Ga. How will that feel to ya? It is a matter of health. He is the leader of the team that has a requirement that at least 85% of the team, coaches and trainers be vaccinated.  He is the leader of this team and his job is that this team is as healthy as possible, politics aside. Being passive is not part of the job requirement to be successful in the SEC. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

1 minute ago, tbone4jc said:

 If we have to forfeit a game because of this, how will you feel about or say our starting backfield is out against say, LSU and Ga. How will that feel to ya? It is a matter of health. He is the leader of the team that has a requirement that at least 85% of the team, coaches and trainers be vaccinated.  He is the leader of this team and his job is that this team is as healthy as possible, politics aside. Being passive is not part of the job requirement to be successful in the SEC. 

 I would feel better losing a game than if he forced shots on players and one died or had serious problems from an adverse reaction. That's just me personally, though. Some people place Football higher than anything. I ,for one, am not in that group.

[slyinsocal 831]

https://news.yahoo.com/fda-set-issue-full-approval-205834404.html

This should help A LOT. As early as Monday, the FDA is expected to formally issue it’s first covid vaccine approval to Pfizer. I’m in my late fifties, and as stubborn as anyone, but I’m typing this with a slightly sore right arm from shot #2 (Pfizer). Everyone is pissed beyond belief as to why this affliction appeared out of nowhere, and spread all over the world. I’m with you. Having said that, it’s here. It’s gonna stay here. It’s time to pull together. Wear your seat belt. Wear your helmet. And like all the numerous other shots we’ve taken without a second thought, get this one done. Please. Thank you.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,401]

7 minutes ago, slyinsocal said:

https://news.yahoo.com/fda-set-issue-full-approval-205834404.html

This should help A LOT. As early as Monday, the FDA is expected to formally issue it’s first covid vaccine approval to Pfizer. I’m in my late fifties, and as stubborn as anyone, but I’m typing this with a slightly sore right arm from shot #2 (Pfizer). Everyone is pissed beyond belief as to why this affliction appeared out of nowhere, and spread all over the world. I’m with you. Having said that, it’s here. It’s gonna stay here. It’s time to pull together. Wear your seat belt. Wear your helmet. And like all the numerous other shots we’ve taken without a second thought, get this one done. Please. Thank you.

I have a feeling that even when it gets FDA approval, the most adamant anti-vaxx people still won’t be encouraged to get it. Their heels are dug in, they’ll just shift the goalposts to another argument about why they won’t get the vaccine. 

[slyinsocal 831]

28 minutes ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

I have a feeling that even when it gets FDA approval, the most adamant anti-vaxx people still won’t be encouraged to get it. Their heels are dug in, they’ll just shift the goalposts to another argument about why they won’t get the vaccine. 

As was the case with me, if enough friends, family members, and co-workers get it with no issues, they’ll come around. These vaccines may not stop you from getting it and spreading it. But at least you’ve increased your odds in avoiding the severe effects, and death.

[KnightTiger 205]

https://www.al.com/auburnfootball/2021/08/ad-allen-greene-auburn-still-plans-full-capacity-tailgating-for-football-this-season.html

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

On 8/20/2021 at 7:14 PM, provibe said:

Can you guarantee me or anyone else that if we get vaccinated we will not get Covid. Why should I be vaccinated if I can still get Covid and with no guarantee that I will not have a bad reaction to vaccine

The vaccine will prevent death or long COVID in the vast majority of the population world-wide. The risks from COVID are much,much greater than the minuscule risk of having a bad reaction to the vaccine. Literally millions of people have been vaccinated all over the world and the reactions are minimal. It is a safe vaccine and the risks have been blown way out of proportion by the uninformed.  COVID is no joke and having an opportunity to protect yourself against it is a wonderful thing. It's a shame that a public health issue was so mismanaged in the beginning. Now it's very difficult, if not impossible, to undue the damage. 

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

5 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Among white people, the divide along party lines is significant. But there are a ton of non-white people not getting vaccinated for non-political reasons, too. So no, it is not completely political.

This is a good point. 

It's an information war. 

Too many individuals wholly misinformed regarding everything COVID-19.

 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

6 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

I never said anything about  feelings getting hurt. I would offer the same advice back, though. If it hurts someones feelings that a person has free will to make their own choice, they need to grow up as opposed to the slander and name calling.  

 

As for what is at the core of people's hesitancy on getting the shot, I can't say for everyone. Many different reasons. Some are afraid of long term risk and effects. Some are afraid of getting blood clots or other negative effects as others have after receiving the shot. I am sure there are other reasons as well. I am just speaking to the conversations I have had. 

Those are reasons based on misinformation.....and not understanding the  science involved. There is no other way to say it. That's not name calling. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

4 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

Those are reasons based on misinformation.....and not understanding the  science involved. There is no other way to say it. That's not name calling. 

It appears you misunderstood my post. Try reading again.

edit- You can pull that misinformation card all day long, but just curious what reason I listed that you are saying is based off misinformation? The part about health risks down the road? No one knows what could come of this years down the road. The part about adverse effects now? I know someone personally who nearly died within 3 weeks of having the shot. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Tigerpro2a