gus and boise state

[AU9377 6,018]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:11 AM, abw0004 said:

I am probably in the minority but I hope Gus does well in this game.  I would like him to be successful, just like I rooted for Chizik at North Carolina as their DC and Tubberville at Texas Tech and Cincinnati.  No hatred from me.  I am overly happy with Harsin so far though and a change was needed for sure so don't get me wrong.

I feel exactly the same.  I'm not sure why some can't thank Gus for the good things he did (and there were some) and still be excited that a change was made.  The fact is that Gus did enough to provide for his family's spot on easy street for generations.  Some act as though he should have turned down the last contract and fell on the sword, while not one of them would have done that had they been given the opportunity.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

4 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I feel exactly the same.  I'm not sure why some can't thank Gus for the good things he did (and there were some) and still be excited that a change was made.  The fact is that Gus did enough to provide for his family's spot on easy street for generations.  Some act as though he should have turned down the last contract and fell on the sword, while not one of them would have done that had they been given the opportunity.

Do I think Gus squandered several championship caliber teams? Sure, but some folks on here act like Gus stole their girl, kicked their dog, and pissed in their Cheerios on his way out the door.  

[gravejd 3,304]

16 hours ago, JBiGGiE said:

Do I think Gus squandered several championship caliber teams? Sure, but some folks on here act like Gus stole their girl, kicked their dog, and pissed in their Cheerios on his way out the door.  

Totally agree. The anger towards Gus is really unwarranted. I'm not exactly cheering him on at UCF but i certainly don't want him to fail. I guess people want proof that he was a bad coach or something but i really don't get it. He had a couple of great seasons here and was a class act his whole time as coach. Hating a guy for losing football games is a bit much. 

[metafour 4,978]

3 hours ago, gravejd said:

Totally agree. The anger towards Gus is really unwarranted. I'm not exactly cheering him on at UCF but i certainly don't want him to fail. I guess people want proof that he was a bad coach or something but i really don't get it. He had a couple of great seasons here and was a class act his whole time as coach. Hating a guy for losing football games is a bit much. 

How is it unwarranted to hold anger against a man who was given every resource imaginable, was handed multiple raises and given a contract in line with that of an elite head coach, who seemingly was more interested in padding his own ego than he was in doing what was necessary to succeed? This is a man who hired based off of nepotism and spent YEARS making the same mistakes over and over and over again. For $7 mill a year I expect a coach who can see a problem, and try something new to fix it. Maybe admit that the "magic offensive system" which hasn't been "magic" in years needs to be revamped. Maybe have the foresight to understand that you need to recruit OL and field players who can play Tackle in this conference. Re-hiring J.B. Grimes as the OL was spiraling out of control was one of the single most idiotic moves you're going to see in the SEC in quite some time.

When somebody tries and fails, that is acceptable. That isn't what Malzahn did here as he forgot the part about "trying", and hence anger is warranted. People like yourself are really jaded by his "goofy goober" personality - he disarms you by coming off as non-threatening, when in fact he is a wolf. How quickly we forget how he threw Rhett Lashlee under the bus, on top of sacrificing all of HIS OWN OC selections whenever his idiotic offensive system didn't work, while making sure to "step back in" to soak up the praise whenever he was able to find a QB who someone else developed.

[AU9377 6,018]

10 hours ago, metafour said:

How is it unwarranted to hold anger against a man who was given every resource imaginable, was handed multiple raises and given a contract in line with that of an elite head coach, who seemingly was more interested in padding his own ego than he was in doing what was necessary to succeed? This is a man who hired based off of nepotism and spent YEARS making the same mistakes over and over and over again. For $7 mill a year I expect a coach who can see a problem, and try something new to fix it. Maybe admit that the "magic offensive system" which hasn't been "magic" in years needs to be revamped. Maybe have the foresight to understand that you need to recruit OL and field players who can play Tackle in this conference. Re-hiring J.B. Grimes as the OL was spiraling out of control was one of the single most idiotic moves you're going to see in the SEC in quite some time.

When somebody tries and fails, that is acceptable. That isn't what Malzahn did here as he forgot the part about "trying", and hence anger is warranted. People like yourself are really jaded by his "goofy goober" personality - he disarms you by coming off as non-threatening, when in fact he is a wolf. How quickly we forget how he threw Rhett Lashlee under the bus, on top of sacrificing all of HIS OWN OC selections whenever his idiotic offensive system didn't work, while making sure to "step back in" to soak up the praise whenever he was able to find a QB who someone else developed.

I suppose you would have to say the same for most every Auburn coach, due to the fact that few have actually done much better or achieved more during their tenure.  I agree that it was time for a change.  To be honest, Gus should have likely been encouraged to take the Arkansas job when they came calling with a truck full of money, but it didn't happen that way and that isn't the fault of the coach.

[DAG 34,754]

22 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

that isn't the fault of the coach.

How? We forced him not to take the Job? Gus ain't no fool. Arkansas was going to give him a large sum with all of the autonomy in the world. He was never going to take that job. 

[gravejd 3,304]

8 hours ago, DAG said:

How? We forced him not to take the Job? Gus ain't no fool. Arkansas was going to give him a large sum with all of the autonomy in the world. He was never going to take that job. 

What kind of idiot turns down money? The day anyone turns down a raise at work then they can talk about Gus signing that contract. The only person to be mad at there is Leath and whatever boosters told him that contract was a good idea. Maybe be mad at Gus agent for taking our admin for a ride but even that is silly cause that is the agents job. 

 

19 hours ago, metafour said:

How is it unwarranted to hold anger against a man who was given every resource imaginable, was handed multiple raises and given a contract in line with that of an elite head coach, who seemingly was more interested in padding his own ego than he was in doing what was necessary to succeed? This is a man who hired based off of nepotism and spent YEARS making the same mistakes over and over and over again. For $7 mill a year I expect a coach who can see a problem, and try something new to fix it. Maybe admit that the "magic offensive system" which hasn't been "magic" in years needs to be revamped. Maybe have the foresight to understand that you need to recruit OL and field players who can play Tackle in this conference. Re-hiring J.B. Grimes as the OL was spiraling out of control was one of the single most idiotic moves you're going to see in the SEC in quite some time.

When somebody tries and fails, that is acceptable. That isn't what Malzahn did here as he forgot the part about "trying", and hence anger is warranted. People like yourself are really jaded by his "goofy goober" personality - he disarms you by coming off as non-threatening, when in fact he is a wolf. How quickly we forget how he threw Rhett Lashlee under the bus, on top of sacrificing all of HIS OWN OC selections whenever his idiotic offensive system didn't work, while making sure to "step back in" to soak up the praise whenever he was able to find a QB who someone else developed.

So all that too me is just being mad at the guy because he wasn't a better coach. I don't think Gus did anything bad intentionally. This isn't a Petrino situation where he lied and embarrassed Auburn. Most could tell through his first 5 seasons what we had.  He would cycle through coordinators and try and do new things but the offense always reverted back to the same as before. He was a guy who had zero coaching contacts and did not want to expand out side of his unbelievably small coaching tree. 

I think it was clear what we had in Gus to about 75% of fan base. Had he not caught that lightening and beat UGA and Bama in 2017 we would have moved on a lot sooner and i think the hard feelings about Gus would be nowhere to be found. Hard for me to get mad at Gus for rallying the team and winning some big games and then signing a contract the university put in front of him. And its my opinion if you are mad about it you are mad at the wrong person. 

[DAG 34,754]

4 minutes ago, gravejd said:

What kind of idiot turns down money?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-contract-discounts-patriots-bargain-2018-7

This idiot

https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-duncan-takes-5-million-paycut-help-spurs-2015-7

 

So once again, did Auburn force Gus to take the contract?

[gravejd 3,304]

Just now, DAG said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-contract-discounts-patriots-bargain-2018-7

This idiot

 

So once again, did Auburn force Gus to take the contract?

So yes Tom Brady is more than welcome to come on here and criticize Gus lmao. 

So you think Gus should have turned down the contract?? Thats what you are saying here? He should have said no thanks i don't think i've earned that yet?

[DAG 34,754]

1 minute ago, gravejd said:

So yes Tom Brady is more than welcome to come on here and criticize Gus lmao. 

So you think Gus should have turned down the contract?? Thats what you are saying here? He should have said no thanks i don't think i've earned that yet?

No. I would have taken it. I am saying it is dumb ass hell to say it wasn't his fault for taking it. Learn how to read. He took the money. Therefore, he gets with comes with taking all the money. 

[gravejd 3,304]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

No. I would have taken it. I am saying it is dumb ass hell to say it wasn't his fault for taking it. Learn how to read. He took the money. Therefore, he gets with comes with taking all the money. 

Getting all fiesty  😁 

Hey if you want to hold a grudge against Gus cause he made a lot of money and did not live up to your expectations then go for it. You certainly aren't alone in feeling that way. I'm extremely happy to see him gone so i'm not going to get in any arguments trying to defend the guy. You have fun carrying that grudge around with you. 

[DAG 34,754]

Yeah let me be mad at the agent. It is his fault Gus refused to get better. It is his fault Gus refused to adapt. Yeah it was the rogue agent, who went out and got that contract. Gus has no responsibility. These are the people who blame the teachers when their kids act out in class. 

[DAG 34,754]

Just now, gravejd said:

Getting all fiesty  😁 

Hey if you want to hold a grudge against Gus cause he made a lot of money and did not live up to your expectations then go for it. You certainly aren't alone in feeling that way. I'm extremely happy to see him gone so i'm not going to get in any arguments trying to defend the guy. You have fun carrying that grudge around with you. 

LOL yeah I am holding a grudge. I just said learn how to read before you make  assumptions. I responded to a guy who absolved Gus of all responsibility of signing a contract. So again, I will ask you, whose fault was it that Gus signed that contract? Was Gus being possessed by a spirit? 

[AU9377 6,018]

10 hours ago, DAG said:

How? We forced him not to take the Job? Gus ain't no fool. Arkansas was going to give him a large sum with all of the autonomy in the world. He was never going to take that job. 

He was never going to take the job with his current job willing to match any offer.  My point was that better leadership could have reset the narrative.  When Arkansas made their offer, I would have patted Gus on the back, thanked him for his hard work and wished him well.  The narrative then becomes a choice between continuing under his current contract, with uncertainty what the next year will bring, or take a massive offer to go home and play the part of hero in turning the program he once played for around.  Our leadership at the time chose to saddle us with a massive contract and buyout due in part to a fear of the unknown.

[DAG 34,754]

Just now, AU9377 said:

He was never going to take the job with his current job willing to match any offer.  My point was that better leadership could have reset the narrative.  When Arkansas made their offer, I would have patted Gus on the back, thanked him for his hard work and wished him well.  The narrative then becomes a choice between continuing under his current contract, with uncertainty what the next year will bring, or take a massive offer to go home and play the part of hero in turning the program he once played for around.  Our leadership at the time chose to saddle us with a massive contract and buyout due in part to a fear of the unknown.

I don't agree with any of this other than it takes two to tango. Both parties had to agree to the contract. It makes no sense to absolve Gus of any blame for signing the contract and the responsibility that comes with this.

[The Freak 2,539]

I'll be watching this game... can't wait for the epic bad takes on Friday.

[Mikey 16,781]

11 hours ago, DAG said:

I don't agree with any of this other than it takes two to tango. Both parties had to agree to the contract. It makes no sense to absolve Gus of any blame for signing the contract and the responsibility that comes with this.

What "blame"? Our administration put a favorable contract on the table in front of him. You think he was supposed to turn it down? In what universe?

[AU9377 6,018]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:07 PM, DAG said:

I don't agree with any of this other than it takes two to tango. Both parties had to agree to the contract. It makes no sense to absolve Gus of any blame for signing the contract and the responsibility that comes with this.

If your employer presented you with a contract paying you several times more than what they should have offered, is your acceptance of their offer some kind of wrongdoing on your part?  I wouldn't think so.  In the coaching profession, people pay agents to get them the best deal possible.  Like any profession, whether it be selling used cars or representing million dollar clients, some are just better at their jobs than others.

[DAG 34,754]

16 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

If your employer presented you with a contract paying you several times more than what they should have offered, is your acceptance of their offer some kind of wrongdoing on your part?  I wouldn't think so.  In the coaching profession, people pay agents to get them the best deal possible.  Like any profession, whether it be selling used cars or representing million dollar clients, some are just better at their jobs than others.

 Wrong doing? What the heck are you talking about?  When did I say he was wrong for signing the contract? You said he is not responsible for signing the contract. What kind of grown ass man logic is that? They offered the contract and he signed it. If I sell you a car and you sign for it, we are both responsible for those actions.  Are you saying it is my fault that you signed the contract? You chose to sign the contract. I chose to offer you it and you chose to sign it. Whatever comes after that comes after that and we both have to deal with the consequences of our actions. So Auburn has to Pay for an average coach. That is their fault. Gus looked like a complete failure and now the joke of some fans of Auburn. That is his own fault for not living up to expectations to his contract. You want to absolve Gus from all responsibility. That is just dumb logic. Yeah he is a rich guy. He also failed here. You want us to acknowledge one without the other. Not going to happen. 

 Gus should have likely been encouraged to take the Arkansas job when they came calling with a truck full of money, but it didn't happen that way and that isn't the fault of the coach.  

Gus is a grown ass man. It was his decision to stay whether he got an extension from Auburn or not. He knew the expectations when he signed the contract. He knew he was on the hot seat just a few weeks earlier.

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,473]

I've got to say that I thought he turned a corner during the season in 2017 after the LSU loss and up UNTIL the SECCG. His dog crap comment and the way he coached vs Alabama was incredible. Of course this is when he got his raise as well.

Safe to say that the PTB fell for it as well. And after that we were all stuck with him.

[DAG 34,754]

Let's just think practical right now because for some reason people get online and have no common sense. I get offers all the time to do a travel position. Heck, I just got an offer to make 15k a week if I come down to Texas and work on their covid unit. That is a ton of money. A lot more than I am getting paid. If I sign the contract, but don't meet expectations of that contract, do you think I can say "Well, it is the companies fault for offering me?" Heck no. The families are going to say but you signed the contract. 

 

So for me, I am not rooting for him and I absolutely hope Boise beats them for how he completely chose to not meet expectations here at Auburn. 

[AU9377 6,018]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

 Wrong doing? What the heck are you talking about?  When did I say he was wrong for signing the contract? You said he is not responsible for signing the contract. What kind of grown ass man logic is that? They offered the contract and he signed it. If I sell you a car and you sign for it, we are both responsible for those actions.  Are you saying it is my fault that you signed the contract? You chose to sign the contract. I chose to offer you it and you chose to sign it. Whatever comes after that comes after that and we both have to deal with the consequences of our actions. So Auburn has to Pay for an average coach. That is their fault. Gus looked like a complete failure and now the joke of some fans of Auburn. That is his own fault for not living up to expectations to his contract. You want to absolve Gus from all responsibility. That is just dumb logic. Yeah he is a rich guy. He also failed here. You want us to acknowledge one without the other. Not going to happen. 

 Gus should have likely been encouraged to take the Arkansas job when they came calling with a truck full of money, but it didn't happen that way and that isn't the fault of the coach.  

Gus is a grown ass man. It was his decision to stay whether he got an extension from Auburn or not. He knew the expectations when he signed the contract. He knew he was on the hot seat just a few weeks earlier.

When u used the word blame, I was not connecting that with performance, but for the decision to accept it.

Nobody chooses to lose games.  They may be responsible for results, but choosing is not the right way to describe that situation.  Pat Dye didn't choose to end his career with two losing seasons.  Chizik didn't choose to have the program collapse in 2012.  Those things still happened.

I said nothing about absolving anyone of anything.  I just think it is childish to act like the man did something to u personally.

[AU9377 6,018]

43 minutes ago, DAG said:

Let's just think practical right now because for some reason people get online and have no common sense. I get offers all the time to do a travel position. Heck, I just got an offer to make 15k a week if I come down to Texas and work on their covid unit. That is a ton of money. A lot more than I am getting paid. If I sign the contract, but don't meet expectations of that contract, do you think I can say "Well, it is the companies fault for offering me?" Heck no. The families are going to say but you signed the contract. 

 

So for me, I am not rooting for him and I absolutely hope Boise beats them for how he completely chose to not meet expectations here at Auburn. 

Your ability to perform your contract is not based on the performance of others.  That makes the comparison less than a good fit.  Look, I said nothing about there being no consequences.  My only point was that the personal animosity some throw out there is childish. 

If others would do the same, I would have no problem  making contracts performance based.  However, no good coach will want to work for you if you are the only program constructing contracts like that. Gus was rewarded for 2013 and he should have been.  He was clearly a large part of the only 2 teams that have played for a National Title since 1953.  He also deserved to be rewarded for 2017, just not to that degree.

[metafour 4,978]

A lot of you are warping the discussion, or missing the point entirely.

The original comment was that some were "confused" as to why an Auburn fan would choose to be mad at Gus Malzahn. The reason why one would be mad, is because he blatantly broke the sanctity of the contract that he signed. When one chooses to sign a contract that places them among the highest paid college coaches in the entire country, with that comes certain added responsibilities. Namely that the team's success now becomes paramount - which means that one must sacrifice their own ego if it is getting in the way of the team's current and long-term success. Even Nick Saban, who is an infinitely better and more accomplished head coach than Malzahn is, has shown this time and time again (for example: when he completely changed his team's offensive identity, even though his initial baseline as a "defensive specialist" was to play ball-control and conservative football on the offensive side). 

Can anyone point out even one thing that Gus Malzahn changed, gave up, sacrificed, etc. during his time here that was done to rectify something that was hurting the team? He ran the team under the pretense that as long as they were executing his "vision" and playbook, 8-wins were fine. People fail to realize how much an ego-maniac he is. Before he ever came to Auburn, he had already established a cadence wherein he'd just up and leave if he didn't get what he wanted, or was questioned (see: his OC stint at Arkansas, or conveniently dipping out on Chizik as the cracks were showing despite the fact that his own offensive incapability and the entire Kiehl Frazier & Jeremy Johnson fiascos were putting his "genius" at risk).

When you consciously accept a $7 mill/year contract at an SEC school, the unwritten expectation is that you are to treat the job with the degree of respect that this contract warrants. His main problem was that he was a $7 mill/year SEC coach who operated as if he was still running Arkansas State, or a HS football team. Yeah, we ****** up and failed to realize that he was incompetent, but Malzahn HIMSELF has a duty and responsibility to learn and patch up his own deficiencies once $7 mill hits the table from the employer. This isn't some "strange" concept; if you get a huge promotion at work to a position that you've never done before, it is EXPECTED that you will put in the work and effort to learn new things. Once again, what new things did Malzahn learn or implement as his team was sinking year over year? Did he change the way we recruited? Nope, he was too good for that - despite the fact that every team we compete against had long gone to a more expansive and regimented form of recruiting. Did he change his offense? Nope, he was still running the same BS that DC's had figured out years ago. Did he bring in highly qualified assistants or coach's who could offer new expertise, or advance the competency of his offensive system? Nope, he would swing in people who he was already comfortable with - because he knew that they couldn't, and wouldn't question him.

So once again, the fact that he accepted a $7 million/year contract isn't the "issue". The issue is that he broke the social contract which was cemented with his acceptance of that contract. Thus, there is a right to be angry.

[AU9377 6,018]

1 minute ago, metafour said:

A lot of you are warping the discussion, or missing the point entirely.

The original comment was that some were "confused" as to why an Auburn fan would choose to be mad at Gus Malzahn. The reason why one would be mad, is because he blatantly broke the sanctity of the contract that he signed. When one chooses to sign a contract that places them among the highest paid college coaches in the entire country, with that comes certain added responsibilities. Namely that the team's success now becomes paramount - which means that one must sacrifice their own ego if it is getting in the way of the team's current and long-term success. Even Nick Saban, who is an infinitely better and more accomplished head coach than Malzahn is, has shown this time and time again (for example: when he completely changed his team's offensive identity, even though his initial baseline as a "defensive specialist" was to play ball-control and conservative football on the offensive side). 

Can anyone point out even one thing that Gus Malzahn changed, gave up, sacrificed, etc. during his time here that was done to rectify something that was hurting the team? He ran the team under the pretense that as long as they were executing his "vision" and playbook, 8-wins were fine. People fail to realize how much an ego-maniac he is. Before he ever came to Auburn, he had already established a cadence wherein he'd just up and leave if he didn't get what he wanted, or was questioned (see: his OC stint at Arkansas, or conveniently dipping out on Chizik as the cracks were showing despite the fact that his own offensive incapability and the entire Kiehl Frazier & Jeremy Johnson fiascos were putting his "genius" at risk).

When you consciously accept a $7 mill/year contract at an SEC school, the unwritten expectation is that you are to treat the job with the degree of respect that this contract warrants. His main problem was that he was a $7 mill/year SEC coach who operated as if he was still running Arkansas State, or a HS football team. Yeah, we ****** up and failed to realize that he was incompetent, but Malzahn HIMSELF has a duty and responsibility to learn and patch up his own deficiencies once $7 mill hits the table from the employer. This isn't some "strange" concept; if you get a huge promotion at work to a position that you've never done before, it is EXPECTED that you will put in the work and effort to learn new things. Once again, what new things did Malzahn learn or implement as his team was sinking year over year? Did he change the way we recruited? Nope, he was too good for that - despite the fact that every team we compete against had long gone to a more expansive and regimented form of recruiting. Did he change his offense? Nope, he was still running the same BS that DC's had figured out years ago. Did he bring in highly qualified assistants or coach's who could offer new expertise, or advance the competency of his offensive system? Nope, he would swing in people who he was already comfortable with - because he knew that they couldn't, and wouldn't question him.

So once again, the fact that he accepted a $7 million/year contract isn't the "issue". The issue is that he broke the social contract which was cemented with his acceptance of that contract. Thus, there is a right to be angry.

Sanctity?  Really?  That term is nonexistent in contract law.  Be angry if it makes u feel better, it just isn't a good look and the only thing it accomplishes is making the angry fan seem small.