No More Small Ball on Defense: A Realistic Defensive Rebuild

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

12 hours ago, AURealist said:

Whoever we successfully recruit, it would be nice if Gus shared with them all his secret techniques for destroying QBs.  

You know, I may agree with you, but funny is funny. I literally laughed out loud!

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

Coming back to this, Derek Mason is a 3-4 guy but has been known to mold his scheme. Do we see more TITE looks w/ this philosophy for backers and subpackages under a Mason Scheme? Looking at his depth charts over they years, he favors taller zone defenders on the back end which is great synergy with a closed off front to mute the spread and the 3-4 naturally adapts to the TITE scheme for the run while letting the backers be athletes at all 3 placed within the game. 

[eaglenest 332]

On 12/9/2020 at 11:10 AM, gravejd said:

I'll agree that we were too small at LB this year when Britt went out. But i don't think we need a change in defensive philosophy. I think we just need capable backups that can fill roles when people go down. If we had someone to plug in for KJ then that would have helped a lot with our defense getting pushed around. Well that and also having people who could replace or kind of replace Brown and Davidson. I personally don't think the coaching staff tried to go smaller on the DL this season....we just lost some monsters from last years team and we did not have new monsters to replace them with. 

For LB i think we need to stay smaller except we need that guy at MLB that can blow up those inside runs. I mean if we can get 240+ pound guys that can also cover backs and slot guys then sign them up!! But with the spread offenses and pace that is out there you need LBs that can cover ground and people more than you need guys that can play inside the box. You still need the big guy in the middle and that is what we were missing this season. 

Garner was terrible IMOP, what our d-line was doing at the point of attack gave us no advantages, engage and look that style of play KILLED us from pressuring any offense.

[bigbird 60,624]

43 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Coming back to this, Derek Mason is a 3-4 guy but has been known to mold his scheme. Do we see more TITE looks w/ this philosophy for backers and subpackages under a Mason Scheme? Looking at his depth charts over they years, he favors taller zone defenders on the back end which is great synergy with a closed off front to mute the spread and the 3-4 naturally adapts to the TITE scheme for the run while letting the backers be athletes at all 3 placed within the game. 

Would love some multiplicity from our D. We became as predictable on D as we had on O.

[eaglenest 332]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:26 PM, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Strength and conditioning can only work if your players follow the nutrition guidelines and plan properly. I remember that going to the wellness kitchen was really about it as far as eating properly. They gave you your goal and you made it happen, also with the healthy proteins and added supplements but that was it. 

The point of this is that most of these guys with the exception of the safeties and corners won't need to bulk up too much to be at their proper goal. In fact, for LBs, keeping them in the 220-235lb range will be the challenge because some might be tempted to overgain. 

 

Instead you can make them focus on strength splits rather than too much hypertrophy and have extra time to work on short area explosiveness.

flex and the op, our strength and conditioning had to be optional because we didn't even look like an uga/lsu/ or bama, me and my brother in law kid all the time that our weight room was optional. A lot of our players by their junior year still looked like the day they arrived on campus. For me the strength and conditioning coach was the most important hire outside of the head coach imop.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

Would love some multiplicity from our D. We became as predictable on D as we had on O.

Sad when you feel better about holding a team on 3rd-and-2 than on 3rd-and-12

[triangletiger 1,599]

4 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

Sad when you feel better about holding a team on 3rd-and-2 than on 3rd-and-12

If by ‘better about’ you mean ‘more confident in your ability to’, then I agree with you.

Edited January 11, 2021 by triangletiger

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

Revisiting how our defense is doing this season, I'm thinking that we REALLY should focus on this for the remainder of Mason's tenure.

When looking at what we do against teams that can run the ball, its more apparent that we need to control the LOS better. Length at the DL helps remedy this problem especially if you commit to 2-gapping in some spots. Bird had mentioned the TITE front for this defense which I believe would have worked even now to help remedy some of the issues against the run, but with the backers being able to hold up against pulls, zones, and reaches from the OL & having the Jack Safety being the extra filler.

The pass is a bit more complicated but I think this personnel grouping would give you much-needed utility against TEs while also letting you scheme up coverages against slot WRs to prevent getting gashed underneath.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Based on our current line up, you can see we are sorta trending that way but still a ways off.

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Malcolm_FleX48

[au302 2,669]

Great stuff as always @Malcolm_FleX48. Funny you bump this, because I was just thinking to myself the other day that we probably need to get much lengthier and bigger at LB. We need it everywhere, but seems like we are especially small there, which sucks because I love ZM and OP.

Also, if you wouldn't mind answering, how does Lee Hunter fit into this scheme? Reason I ask is because I read an opinion on another board a few weeks ago that he's not a good fit, but I have no clue if that's correct or not. Figured you'd be able to answer that

[bigbird 60,624]

57 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Revisiting how our defense is doing this season, I'm thinking that we REALLY should focus on this for the remainder of Mason's tenure.

When looking at what we do against teams that can run the ball, its more apparent that we need to control the LOS better. Length at the DL helps remedy this problem especially if you commit to 2-gapping in some spots. Bird had mentioned the TITE front for this defense which I believe would have worked even now to help remedy some of the issues against the run, but with the backers being able to hold up against pulls, zones, and reaches from the OL & having the Jack Safety being the extra filler.

The pass is a bit more complicated but I think this personnel grouping would give you much-needed utility against TEs while also letting you scheme up coverages against slot WRs to prevent getting gashed underneath.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Based on our current line up, you can see we are sorta trending that way but still a ways off.

 

I've been thinking about it too lately. I love your line up.  With Zion out who would you fill with?

I have also thought of a hybrid 5-2 look using the OLB as EMOL defenders

My DL:

0= Fair 

4i = Harris and Wooden 

7 = Hall

Overhang (9)= Height 

CB = Roger and Jaylin 

S = Smoke and Puckett 

 

Pritchett and Tennison play a bunch.

[bigbird 60,624]

Also, if anyone wants to know more about what Flex and I are talking about when we say a Tite front, then this article will explain it. As always, if there are any questions,  ask away.

http://breakdownsports.blogspot.com/2019/05/football-fundamentals-tite-front-defense.html?m=1

[AUx 3,016]

On 1/11/2021 at 8:59 AM, eaglenest said:

flex and the op, our strength and conditioning had to be optional because we didn't even look like an uga/lsu/ or bama, me and my brother in law kid all the time that our weight room was optional. A lot of our players by their junior year still looked like the day they arrived on campus. For me the strength and conditioning coach was the most important hire outside of the head coach imop.

 

[Didba 5,303]

Man this is great.  So many things here for me to go look up and read about.  Some of this stuff is above my understanding buuuuuuuuuuuut it wont be for long.  Starting with TITE.  Never heard of that terminology. My base defense was a 4-2-5 with a dedicated bandit.  So this 3-4 terminology is new to me.  I actually wasn't in on this original thread MASSIVE PROPS to OP bc this is amazing for a scheme nerd like myself. You and Big Bird are on another level. 

[Didba 5,303]

44 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I've been thinking about it too lately. I love your line up.  With Zion out who would you fill with?

I have also thought of a hybrid 5-2 look using the OLB as EMOL defenders

My DL:

0= Fair 

4i = Harris and Wooden 

7 = Hall

Overhang (9)= Height 

CB = Roger and Jaylin 

S = Smoke and Puckett 

 

Pritchett and Tennison play a bunch.

Is the 3i not utilized in a 3-4 scheme?  I have always felt that a shaded nose with a 3i on the strong side can produce a really strong interior pass rush as you can overload guards and center.  I think these are 4-3 concepts though which is obviously not the base defense we are running.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Didba

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

51 minutes ago, au302 said:

Great stuff as always @Malcolm_FleX48. Funny you bump this, because I was just thinking to myself the other day that we probably need to get much lengthier and bigger at LB. We need it everywhere, but seems like we are especially small there, which sucks because I love ZM and OP.

Also, if you wouldn't mind answering, how does Lee Hunter fit into this scheme? Reason I ask is because I read an opinion on another board a few weeks ago that he's not a good fit, but I have no clue if that's correct or not. Figured you'd be able to answer that

He can be good here because at this size He'd be closer to a 3-4 DE which that's probably his natural fit. He'll have less opportunities to be a playmaker unless he's amazing at beating double teams. This is more of a "Cream Rise to The Top" sort of system where the truly phenomenal players that can defeat the run blocks and rush the passer from an inside shade like Stephon Tuitt etc will be phenomenal but the ones who aren't great still can be high-level contributors unless they're just out of place.

The alignment itself take away gaps while forcing runs outside for your faster players to get out and meet them.

Even better is that thanks to the addition of the Jack Safety, you can also spill or you can play force technique. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Malcolm_FleX48

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

1 minute ago, Didba said:

Is the 3i not utilized in a 3-4 scheme?  I have always felt that a shaded nose with a 3i on the strong side can produce a really strong interior pass rush as you can overload guards.  I think these are 4-3 concepts though which is obviously not the base defense we are running.

3-4 Schemes use a 5 and in some fronts a 4i where its inside foot of the tackle. Usually you don't want that OLB having to focus so much on the run where they'd be responsible for 2 gaps.

[bigbird 60,624]

35 minutes ago, AUx said:

 

Don't kid yourself, that's a killer ab workout

[bigbird 60,624]

19 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Even better is that thanks to the addition of the Jack Safety, you can also spill or you can play force technique. 

Having Sherwood this year in this scheme would've been fun to watch.

[AUpreacherman22 3,908]

Flex and Bird, y’all are awesome!   
 

Btw, praying for your safety this week Bird!  It’s a dangerous week to be a big bird!

[Didba 5,303]

21 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

3-4 Schemes use a 5 and in some fronts a 4i where its inside foot of the tackle. Usually you don't want that OLB having to focus so much on the run where they'd be responsible for 2 gaps.

and with a 3 technique the OLB would become responsible for the C gap and the ? Which would put too much pressure on him?

Edited November 25, 2021 by Didba

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

1 minute ago, Didba said:

and with a 3i the OLB would become resposible for B&C gaps? Correct? Which would put too much pressure on him?

Yes, it would negate the advantage of the 3-4 in having a designated PR player.

You'd want to have it schemed up so your LBs can be fast to their assignments. 

[Didba 5,303]

43 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Yes, it would negate the advantage of the 3-4 in having a designated PR player.

You'd want to have it schemed up so your LBs can be fast to their assignments. 

Man I haven't thought about gap assignments in so long. This has been refreshing. Thanks.

[woodford 3,688]

Sounds like OP is going for a moneyball approach. Can we call it moneyball now with NIL? Guess it’s always been moneyball with Bama now that I think about it lol

 

Great post. Offense is worse than defense but the defense isn’t anything spectacular regardless of what people try to tell you with total scoring defense. 

[aucanucktiger 1,812]

Good thread and nobody's a bigger fan of Kaufman, but IMO he's the poster child for our D since UGa game - 100% effort and a world of undisciplined talent & speed that results in either great plays or overruns & missed tackles. That's coaching. If our edges up their game and fundamentals get taught & enforced, our undersized, speedy D works in the SEC. Just an opinion.

[cole256 17,085]

This is going to scare a bunch of people