not wanted...............

[homersapien 12,230]

27 minutes ago, bigbird said:

....That's the point. For 4 years many have been chastised for their vote against HRC by the left and when the situation is flipped, they fervently are doing the same. 

 

Well, I would describe it more as a being chastised for voting for a narcissistic psychopath who has done tremendous damage to the country.

Hate her or not, Hillary was qualified.  Trump is totally unsuited for the office and is a complete failure.

Hate him or not, Biden is qualified.  If you want to make an issue that people's contempt for Trump is greater than their hope for Biden, then have at it. 

It's just pointless.

 

[bigbird 60,939]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

As for victims, I'd like you to really explore your own language.

No, I believe you need to point this one out. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

27 minutes ago, bigbird said:

How is it not?

'16, candidate that a lot didn't necessarily like vs candidate they despised.

'20, candidate that a lot don't necessarily like vs candidate they despised.

The only difference is the letter after their names. The fact is, this is election is a referendum on Trump just like '16 was a referendum on HRC.

You say it's invalid but that's only because you're seemingly ignoring the obvious similarities between the two cycles. Many openly admit they are voting against Trump rather than for Biden just like many in '16 openly admitted they voted for Trump rather than voting for HRC.

This seems like a pretty accurate take to me.  Take a step back and look from 30,000 feet and it's pretty spot on.

[bigbird 60,939]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, I would describe it more as a being chastised for voting for a narcissistic psychopath who has done tremendous damage to the country.

Hate her or not, Hillary was qualified.  Trump is totally unsuited for the office and is a complete failure.

Hate him or not, Biden is qualified.  If you want to make an issue that people's contempt for Trump is greater than their hope for Biden, then have at it. 

It's just pointless.

 

I'm not talking about any of that and I haven't been. I'm not saying who is or who isn't qualified. I am, and have only been talking about the similarities between the cycles and the motivation of the electorate, not the candidates...ever

Do you honestly not see similarities between the two cycles? Both are going to be votes against a candidate rather than support for a specific candidate.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, Brad_ATX said:

This seems like a pretty accurate take to me.  Take a step back and look from 30,000 feet and it's pretty spot on.

No, it's not. The HRC hate had nothing to do with 4 years of her doing the worst job in history of being president.

[aubiefifty 18,231]

i voted for bernie last election because i did not like hill much. i will never make that mistake again. and i am sorry but i like joe and i look to see what he does.  so  it is a double win for me. now if dennis k had a shot i probably would have voted for him because sometimes i am not a strict party guy. and i want my friggin president to quit getting on tv crying like a baby every single day. and i want trump to lose because he might face some jail time unless he gets pardoned. and for the record i have never in my life seen republicans lining up to try and help get trump out of office. if it has ever happened in politics in america before i never knew about it. but i will be watching to see what joe does with the kids in cages for one thing if he wins. i am old and cranky and i am not afraid to get on anyones behind. and fix the damn water in detroit and some of the native american lands like the navaho for gods sake.

[bigbird 60,939]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

No, it's not. The HRC hate had nothing to do with 4 years of her doing the worst job in history of being president.

It doesn't matter the reason behind the disdain. Fact is, in both cycles people cast/will cast solely against a candidate rather than for the other.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

No, it's not. The HRC hate had nothing to do with 4 years of her doing the worst job in history of being president.

Bruh, hate of a candidate is still hate of a candidate.  The motivation of hate doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters is if said hate gets people to vote against that candidate.

That's the point Bird's making here.

Again, take a 30,000 foot view.  You're in the weeds of why as opposed to looking at the overall parallel similarities of the situation.

[homersapien 12,230]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

100% fact.

That doesn't change the fact that this cycle, just like the last, is more about a vote against one candidate than a vote for the other.

I'd love to get back to the original premise. The original premise is about the election and the similar motivations between the two cycles and how one side, after years of criticisms for a vote against, are gleefully prepared to do the same thing.

Again, you are dismissing significant qualitative differences. 

In 2016, the vote for Trump was based on an irrational hatred for an otherwise qualified opponent. (And how has that turned out?)

In 2020, the vote for Biden may be largely based on the demonstrated incompetency and sociopathy demonstrated by Trump in the last four years (actually longer, since he demonstrated those traits way before he ran for office).

But like I said, if you must describe that perfectly rational choice as being "gleeful", that's fine by me.  It just comes across as being defensive about being criticized for voting for a narcissistic sociopath, whatever your excuse.

 

[aubiefifty 18,231]

Just now, bigbird said:

It doesn't matter the reason behind the disdain. Fact is, in both cycles people cast/will cast solely against a candidate rather than for the other.

sure some will be a lot of people like joe. it is like that meme on facebook calling him creepy with a youg kid. it seems that was joes grandson and his father had just died and jo was trying to comfort him and of course many on the right made it out to be something ugly just like elle said.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

Bruh, hate of a candidate is still hate of a candidate.  The motivation of hate doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters is if said hate gets people to vote against that candidate.

That's the point Bird's making here.

Again, take a 30,000 foot view.  You're in the weeds of why as opposed to looking at the overall parallel similarities of the situation.

Bruh?

Have a great weekend, all.

[aubiefifty 18,231]

i always felt bad when hil got the blame for benghazi when she was not nallowed to make ANY military decisions. the fact was a general refused to send troops in until he could get a drone or sat over the area to see what he faced. snopes had the whole report. what got me was she spent half a mil trying to get women to not testify against ol bill.

[bigbird 60,939]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Again, you are dismissing significant qualitative differences. 

In 2016, the vote for Trump was based on an irrational hatred for an otherwise qualified opponent. (And how has that turned out?)

In 2020, the vote for Biden may be largely based on the demonstrated incompetency and sociopathy demonstrated by Trump in the last four years (actually longer, since he demonstrated those traits way before he ran for office).

But like I said, if you must describe that perfectly rational choice as being "gleeful", that's fine by me.  It just comes across as being defensive about being criticized for voting for a narcissistic sociopath, whatever your excuse.

 

You're trying way too hard to make this into something that you want it to be as opposed what is actually being said.

[homersapien 12,230]

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

You're trying way too hard to make this into something that you want it to be as opposed what is actually being said.

What is being said is totally pointless given the circumstances as I have already outlined.

I am sorry if you feel hurt over being "chastised" for voting for Trump simply because you hated Hillary, but that's not my problem.

[homersapien 12,230]

25 minutes ago, bigbird said:

It doesn't matter the reason behind the disdain. Fact is, in both cycles people cast/will cast solely against a candidate rather than for the other.

That's just BS.  While it true for some voters (like DKW for example), most people who will vote for Biden like and appreciate Biden, including me.

I think he will do a great job.  Most Democrats and/or progressives think he will do at least a good job.

The fact we are totally against Trump in no way means we aren't for Biden. I submit that you are the one who is getting too deep into the psychology of voting.  It's a binary choice.  Quantifying one's approval of one candidate vs. their disapproval of the other candidate is a pointless exercise unless that approval - or disapproval - is totally irrational.  And even then it's of no value to anyone except the person who attaches significance to it.

And as far as being "chastised" for voting against Hillary instead of for Trump, I've heard that mostly from Trump voters themselves, presumably as an excuse.

[bigbird 60,939]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

What is being said is totally pointless given the circumstances as I have already outlined.

I am sorry if you feel hurt over being "chastised" for voting for Trump simply because you hated Hillary, but that's not my problem.

At first I thought it was your comprehension that was misfiring. I'm relieved to know that you're just not reading the post. You not understanding the conversation makes a lot more sense now. 

[bigbird 60,939]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Some people might (like DKW).

But most people who will vote for Biden like and appreciate Biden, including me. I think he will do a great job.  Most Democrats and/or progressives think he will do at least a good job.

The fact we are totally against Trump in no way means we aren't for Biden.

I submit that you are the one who is getting too deep into the psychology of this.

(And as far as being "chastised" for voting against Hillary instead of for Trump, I've heard that mostly from Trump voters themselves, presumably as an excuse.)

Really?

How many post on here in the last 3 months have said the exact same thing I have been saying. Interesting enough, they were posted by those that you would consider left leaning and not a single issue with it. Today, I say it and... voila! All of a sudden its such a ludicrous concept that's pointless and invalid. It's hilarious how blindly partisan some of y'all can be.

[homersapien 12,230]

31 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Really?

How many post on here in the last 3 months have said the exact same thing I have been saying. Interesting enough, they were posted by those that you would consider left leaning and not a single issue with it. Today, I say it and... voila! All of a sudden its such a ludicrous concept that's pointless and invalid. It's hilarious how blindly partisan some of y'all can be.

Stop it Bird.  

This is not about me being "blindly partisan". 

You have clearly inferred that most  - if not all - of the people voting for Biden are doing so "solely" because of their hatred of Trump.  I quoted you.

I think most Biden voters are convinced he will be a far superior POTUS than Trump. In other words, they also like him.  Read his speech. That's why most of his voters like him.  It's not all about disgust for Trump.

Bottom line, I like Biden, I hate Trump.  If that's "partisan" then I'll plead guilty. 

("Blindly" partisan is a different matter. I have rational arguments for my position.) 

This topic pointless. It's a binary choice.  Applying significance or weight to people's motivations in that choice is nothing more than psychological masturbation. (And that's a non-partisan observation. )

On the other hand, if you are suggesting this election - in general - will be more about disgust and contempt for Trump than it is "love" for Biden, I will wholeheartedly agree. But then that's pretty much true for all incumbent elections.

 

 

[johnnyAU 3,745]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

The hate for Hillary was largely the result of a decade long effort by the right wing to demonize here (Benghazi!!).

BS. It was because she was who she was, and still is. 

[johnnyAU 3,745]

There were also many of us who didn't vote for Trump, who would never vote for Hillary.  I'm also not voting for Biden. I neither like Biden nor think he will be an adequate POTUS.  He used to be more of a centrist/moderate, but has pandered to Bernie's progressives to garner his votes.  Many believe he has little shot of serving out the first term if he is fortunate enough to get elected in the first place. He is nothing more than a puppet candidate, and that just isn't good enough.  

[homersapien 12,230]

1 hour ago, johnnyAU said:

BS. It was because she was who she was, and still is. 

BS right back at'cha.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/hillary-vs-the-hate-machine-how-clinton-became-a-vessel-for-americas-fury-103997/

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36992955

https://www.newsweek.com/conservatives-engaged-vast-conspiracy-undermine-clintons-1230227

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/books/review/the-hunting-of-hillary-michael-dantonio.html

 

 

 

 

[homersapien 12,230]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

It doesn't matter the reason behind the disdain. Fact is, in both cycles people cast/will cast solely against a candidate rather than for the other.

That just BS.   Maybe that's the problem here.  (Perhaps you are listening to DKW too much?)

I personally like Biden very much. I think he will do a great job. Most Democrats and/or progressives also like him.  They think he will do a good job. In fact, I guarantee you they like him better than they do Trump.

You are trying to make hay from the fact we all recognize Trump for what he is and would likely vote for the Democratic candidate even if it was someone we liked less than Biden.  Well, duuuh!

I guarantee you we would probably like any Democratic more than we would like Trump - which is not at all.

This whole argument is dumb.

[ToraGirl 5,498]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

I'm not talking about any of that and I haven't been. I'm not saying who is or who isn't qualified. I am, and have only been talking about the similarities between the cycles and the motivation of the electorate, not the candidates...ever

Do you honestly not see similarities between the two cycles? Both are going to be votes against a candidate rather than support for a specific candidate.

And it's been this way for decades...it's only gotten more obvious in the last two cycles.  It is hard to find anyone we would happily vote for who will put him/herself through what it takes to become elected.  What have you actually won?

[aubiefifty 18,231]

bigbird should be called bird dog cus when he gets on ya he clamps down and does not let go. like a hell hound. lol he got on me a time of two and i thought i was in a horror movie..............grins

[DKW 86 7,899]

11 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's just BS.  While it true for some voters (like DKW for example), most people who will vote for Biden like and appreciate Biden, including me.

I think he will do a great job.  Most Democrats and/or progressives think he will do at least a good job.

homer, you do not have f'in clue about anything. This proves it. NO PROG wants Biden. None. Biden may be the event that creates the first third party in America.

The fact we are totally against Trump in no way means we aren't for Biden. I submit that you are the one who is getting too deep into the psychology of voting.  It's a binary choice.  Quantifying one's approval of one candidate vs. their disapproval of the other candidate is a pointless exercise unless that approval - or disapproval - is totally irrational.  And even then it's of no value to anyone except the person who attaches significance to it.

And as far as being "chastised" for voting against Hillary instead of for Trump, I've heard that mostly from Trump voters themselves, presumably as an excuse.

Polls show 55% of Biden Voters are really just voting against Trump. This is a few days after a Convention. In reality, I would stop and let it get back to normal and then react. Everyone, even the worst candidates, get a convention bounce. Trump will get one too. It is just a reality in politics. Let's look at polling in about 2-3 weeks and see reality with the emotion out of it.