letting a magical season slip away

[bigbird 60,939]

5 hours ago, Grumps said:

What if today Gus became the coach we Auburn fans have always wanted.

He'd be 4 days early and change the game plan on Thursday

[Grumps 3,706]

I think that some of the difference of opinion has to do with what we perceive our roles to be. As corny as it sounds, I believe that my role as an Auburn fan is to support (at least publicly) the team (which includes the coaches). I want to be encouraging to people who come to this board. If I am in the stadium I want to be the one yelling the loudest to give us a home field advantage until the game is over or at least the outcome is no longer in doubt. I was raised by an Auburn man. He raised me to be that kind of a fan.

Do I EXPECT our coach to become the best coach in the country? No. But that is still what I am pulling for while he is our coach. I don't have any influence with big money donors, but I can make sure that if a player or his Momma reads one of my posts here that they feel loved by the Auburn family. I COMPLETELY understand that most others feel differently and that is just fine. Oh, and I still can't wait to beat the dawgcrap out of UGA Saturday!

[creed 1,787]

I did not expect magic and we’re about where I thought we would be. It’s hard to beat more talented teams who have good coaching. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 minutes ago, creed said:

I did not expect magic and we’re about where I thought we would be. It’s hard to beat more talented teams who have good coaching. 

Except Florida is not more talented than us.

[cole256 17,085]

10 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Except Florida is not more talented than us.

Hell overall LSU isn't either; they just have a QB who 's playing at a higher level right now. That's literally the difference between our teams. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

8 hours ago, DAG said:

You can leave if you want  but I will rebuttal for “the haters.”

You say you don’t think Gus is the man but in the same light you say you like where the program is going ? How does that work? I really don’t even want to respond to the myriads of your other content because this is the premise that I was talking about.  
 

You also mentioned in your original post how we are filling the offensive line with JUCO players..Why? His offense is predicated on being able to run the ball. Why the hell are we in this position going into year 8?

You are stuck on the indifferent thing so let me clarify. You said regardless of the outcome in the next 3 games I think we would be better next year. Cool. Did you read the rest of my post? Yes we might look better next year because the schedule is soft as charming, but that doesn’t mean we will beat UGA, LSU, or Bama, which is what I judge him on. So if he wins 8 games this year and wins 9 games next year but still loses to LSU, UGA, Bama does it mean the team got better? Not really . All it means is instead of playing UF, he is now playing UK. That is where the indifference comes from to me.

Chik-Fil-A comment doesn’t even make sense . You recognize this employee will lose their job since they keep Messi , yet you and I quote said I LIKE THE WAY THE PROGRAM CURRENTLY IS AND HEADING. HOW? If you don’t think Gus is the right man for the job. 
 

You already said you don’t think Gus play calling has lost us a game this year, correct ? Questionable 

You referenced him having to play a true freshman? You know this spring he had 3 viable options to start. One transferred before the season. He had another viable option as well that HE CHOSE not to utilize.  

You do not even realize I am in agreement with you. I think Gus is past his time. I think he has gotten the program to a good point to take the next step, but I do not think he is the guy to take us there. Why is that premise so hard for you to understand. My god. I get that he failed us on OL recruiting for 6 years. So if you were in this spot you wouldn't go after JUCO guys for next season?  To answer your question of how the program can be in a good spot but not think the coach should stay... We are recruiting well. I think we have a lot of good weapons for the next few years. I would compare it to Mark R. at UGA. He had them in a good spot but couldn't get past the hump. I think that is where we are with Gus. It's not rocket surgery to understand that. He has built a good culture, brought quality people in, and has us relevant every year. I like where the program is. I do not think he can get us to the elite level. I do not know how else to draw it out for you. As for BAma, UGA, and LSU. I agree. I do not know why you think I don't. You are arguing an agreed concept. We both have the affirmative that GUS isn't the guy based on his success against LSU, UGA and BAMA. However, I think the program is in a good spot to compete with them despite or head coach. That's the point I am making. This post was about the program...again...not about Gus.....not where Gus is....where the program is....I am ready for Gus to leave.

As for your post about me leaving......Why the hell would I leave? Do you think I care if you continue to try and argue with a fence posts? That's what it seems you are doing. We agree on everything in regards to Gus.  I know how to use the ignore button on people. I have made many friends here. I like most of what you say. I think you are way off base here on your response to my op, but that's ok. I am not going to tell you to leave. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

7 hours ago, DAG said:

This is key right here. How anyone can be okay with the program right now speaks volumes IMO. This feels like clear stagnation at this point. Are we really progressing ? 

The Program is in good shape as you said. It is ready to be taken to the next level. It's our HC that is stagnating. You said even bad coaches can win 8 and 9 games. Well that means something for the program. Our recruiting is as good as it's been in a long time on a consistency basis. We just need a coach that can take us to the next level. Having a problem with the coach and thinking he has reached his potential and having a problem with where the program is at the current moment and where it could be with a better HC are mutually exclusive. You always want to bring up people that talk about "we could be Arky or UT" Well...that would be a situation where the program is on fire, and the coaching situation is horrible as well. We do not have that. We have a stable program waiting on someone who can take us from good...to Elite.

[GwillMac6 20,849]

 

[AuJoe 79]

On 11/4/2019 at 10:31 AM, McLoofus said:

I'm going to give you numbers anyway. Don't worry, they're not fancy.

LSU gives up 315.4 yards a game. We produced 287 against them. 

Florida gives up 328.2 yards per game. We produced 269 against them. 

Both of those averages include their games against us. This means that they actually give up more yards per game against their other opponents, and that our performance against them is even lower relative to their other opponents. 

Year 7 for the guy in charge of our offense. 

Not arguing your point but just to be fair if we are going to start throwing out stats lets at least break them down a little more apples to apples...make of them what you will

(Not including Auburn because that skews the stats up since Auburn did better than the others for the most part)

Fla on the road gives up: 435 yds and 30 points

Fla neutral site gives up: 350 yds and 22 points

Fla at home gives up: 202 yds and .75 (less than 1) points

AU at Fla: 269 yds and 13 points (both above the Fla home average)

LSU on the road gives up: 446 yds and 33 points

LSU at home gives up: 248 yds and 13 points

AU at LSU: 287 yds and 20 points (both above the LSU home average)

One could see that Florida and LSU (like most teams) do much better at home than on the road. One could also see that Auburn did better at their sites than their average opponent did. One could draw the conclusion that Fla gives up 199 more yards on the road than at home on average as well as 26 more points and that LSU gives up 198 more yards on the road and 20 more points on average. One final conclusion one could draw would be that Auburn would've put up 468 yards and 39 points on Florida and 485 yards and 40 points on LSU had those games been at Auburn if we're basing everything on averages.

Gotta watch out when using averages because they can show you things you might not want to see. Do I think that would've been what Auburn would've done to those teams in Jordan-Hare...I have no idea. As anyone watching the games would have to admit, Auburn was a few Bo Nix bad passes and a step out-of-bounds from winning both those games at their places. What might've happened had they been at JH? I'm guessing we might've at least gotten a few of those holding calls and a few less procedure calls.

I guess the Georgia and Alabama games will give us some sort of idea how much the road hurt us...maybe/maybe not.

[DAG 34,751]

2 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

You do not even realize I am in agreement with you. I think Gus is past his time. I think he has gotten the program to a good point to take the next step, but I do not think he is the guy to take us there. Why is that premise so hard for you to understand. My god. I get that he failed us on OL recruiting for 6 years. So if you were in this spot you wouldn't go after JUCO guys for next season?  To answer your question of how the program can be in a good spot but not think the coach should stay... We are recruiting well. I think we have a lot of good weapons for the next few years. I would compare it to Mark R. at UGA. He had them in a good spot but couldn't get past the hump. I think that is where we are with Gus. It's not rocket surgery to understand that. He has built a good culture, brought quality people in, and has us relevant every year. I like where the program is. I do not think he can get us to the elite level. I do not know how else to draw it out for you. As for BAma, UGA, and LSU. I agree. I do not know why you think I don't. You are arguing an agreed concept. We both have the affirmative that GUS isn't the guy based on his success against LSU, UGA and BAMA. However, I think the program is in a good spot to compete with them despite or head coach. That's the point I am making. This post was about the program...again...not about Gus.....not where Gus is....where the program is....I am ready for Gus to leave.

As for your post about me leaving......Why the hell would I leave? Do you think I care if you continue to try and argue with a fence posts? That's what it seems you are doing. We agree on everything in regards to Gus.  I know how to use the ignore button on people. I have made many friends here. I like most of what you say. I think you are way off base here on your response to my op, but that's ok. I am not going to tell you to leave. 

What? Haha you said you were leaving after ranting at me so I said that is fine. Listen I know what you are trying to say. I still disagree with you . I don’t think he has our program in a good spot. I think we are exactly where we’ve been before. The only difference is he has never had a losing season, but that balances out when his predecessors has both had undefeated seasons and one of them even has a National Championship. Both have won SEC Championship. The only thing we supposedly agree on is Gus is not the right guy to get us over the top. Gene Chizik recruited well. It doesn’t take a “rocket surgeon” to recruit good at Auburn. So, no I am not going to give him a pat on the back for doing what others have been able to achieve prior to him. 
 

What do I expect him to do about the offensive linemen? Go out , LISTEN to the people you have around you and finish the deal. Stop acting like you know every freaking thing. That seems to be the biggest issue. Take a page out of Coach O book. I can say this, Gus inherited a great offensive line. The next coach sure as hell won’t be getting one. 

[DAG 34,751]

2 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

You always want to bring up people that talk about "we could be Arky or UT"

I always bring it up? LOL. I think I have referenced this phrase one time in my posting history and it is to ridicule the folks who think we will ever be like those programs. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

12 minutes ago, DAG said:

I always bring it up? LOL. I think I have referenced this phrase one time in my posting history and it is to ridicule the folks who think we will ever be like those programs. 

I agree,.....again

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

18 minutes ago, DAG said:

What? Haha you said you were leaving after ranting at me so I said that is fine. "I said I am starting to rant so I will end with this...." meaning end the post. Not going anywhere. It's cool. I guess that can be twisted as well. 

Listen I know what you are trying to say. I still disagree with you  If you know what I am saying then instead of acting like I posted something moronic concept that no one could understand then all you have to do is disagree. Heck disagreements make the world go round brother. . I don’t think he has our program in a good spot. disagree.I think we are exactly where we’ve been before. agree....but we have been much worse as well. We aren't at the next level which is where we need a new coach to get us there.  I am saying we are in a good spot to get there if we make the right moves. The only difference is he has never had a losing season, There are other differences. but that balances out when his predecessors has both had undefeated seasons and one of them even has a National Championship. Both have won SEC Championship. The only thing we supposedly agree on is Gus is not the right guy to get us over the top. Gene Chizik recruited well. He doesn’t take a “rocket surgeon” to recruit good at Auburn. So, no I am not going to give him a pat on the back for doing what others have been able to achieve prior to him. Good...make your stand. 
 

What do I expect him to do about the offensive linemen? Go out , LISTEN to the people you have around you and finish the deal. So in years past we would go after elite level OLs and miss then have no back up. That's how we got here. It isn't like we havent tried to sign elite guys. We just never had plan Bs. This year we have done a better job of addressing that. I am not dismissing the mess he put us in or defending it...simply stating a fact that he seems to have taken a different and better approach to OFF Line recruiting this year. That is a fact so no reason in disputing it. Stop acting like you know every freaking thing. Agree That seems to be the biggest issue. Take a page out of Coach O book. I can say this, Gus inherited a great offensive line. The next coach sure as hell won’t be getting one. That depends. When do we get a new coach

 

[DAG 34,751]

Just now, Tigerpro2a said:

 

I disagreed with your premise from the get go. You said I didn't understand. I completely still disagree with your premise. I kept help that your feel that my post made your content feel moronic. That is on you buddy. It was not my intention, but it is what it is. We can go in circles all day. We aren't going to agree on several facets as to why you think we are in a good position. 

[creed 1,787]

5 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Except Florida is not more talented than us.

Probably so,  bad qb performance for the Florida game.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

12 minutes ago, DAG said:

I disagreed with your premise from the get go. You said I didn't understand. I completely still disagree with your premise. I kept help that your feel that my post made your content feel moronic. You didn't make me feel any kind of way. Let me rephrase then....you were acting ignorant to the concept . That is on you buddy. It was not my intention, but it is what it is. We can go in circles all day.Obviously, you are disagreeing that I agree with you on things. You can't decide that.  We aren't going to agree on several facets as to why you think we are in a good position. 

See Mark Ritch at UGA. It's not rocket surgery. 

[DAG 34,751]

 

1 minute ago, Tigerpro2a said:

You didn't make me feel any kind of way.

 

2 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

you sit there an act like the concept I am stating is unearthly

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

13 minutes ago, DAG said:

We aren't going to agree on several facets as to why you think we are in a good position.

Ok since I have stated clearly why I think our program is in a good position....I would like to hear why you disagree. Again, from my op to now...has nothing to do with coaching staff. We are in agreement we need a new coach. What are the reasons you feel we are not in a good position with the program?

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

 

 

She is a communists get her off my screen!!!!!!!!LOL

[DAG 34,751]

Just now, Tigerpro2a said:

Ok since I have stated clearly why I think our program is in a good position....I would like to hear why you disagree. Again, from my op to now...has nothing to do with coaching staff. We are in agreement we need a new coach. What are the reasons you feel we are not in a good position with the program?

1). Our coach has a horrible record against Kirby Smart and coach O. He is 1-7 against them I believe. With this in mind, those programs are going upwards versus our program. When Gus became the HC at Auburn, both of those programs were dealing with identity crisis. Richt had lost his way and Les had no idea what he was doing. Those were the perfect opportunity to jump on them before they found their way. 2016 was the perfect opportunity to shut the UGA momentum down, the same with 2017 LSU. Yet, we haven't found a way to get over the hump against those squads. You have to start proving to prospects you can beat those teams in order to start stealing recruits. Moreover, you need to have a rational plan in part or else you will always lose those key recruits to our rivals. Dan Mullen is going to eventually run right passed him at UF as well. The program is staying stagnant while other programs will continue to get better.

2). You need to have a vision. It is pointless to have myriads of skill people if you don't use them correctly. Even more, if your vision is predicament on running the ball, you need to make sure you have a QUALITY LINE year in and year out. You also need to make sure you have viable back up plans, year in and year out. No reason we should have to go the JUCO route annually for QBs and Offensive linemen. Cord Sandberg is our back up now. A guy who hasn't played since high school. It didn't have to be this way. And Bo Nix does not seem to be progressing against Quality teams. The assumption would be he can have a Joe Burrow 180 season next year. But if he doesn't, we will be in the same predicament next year as we are this year. 

3). You have to win when you have the horses to make a run. The defense he has this year is great. I don't particularly think the defense will be as seasoned next year. This can be a problem along with QB play and offensive line woes. Maybe I am being negative, but I don't see us getting any better from that front based on who we are losing and what we are bringing in. I just don't. 

With all this being said, This does not mean we won't win 8-9 games next year. TBH, you can take the top 24 coaches of ranked teams currently and win 8 games ANNUALLY with our talent. Heck, Oregon is a good squad , but there is no reason why we should think our team should EVER lose to Oregon. On paper alone, top to bottom, we are more talented than them. Basically what I am saying the program is what the program is. There is no ground breaking work being done here. AU is a legit, respectable program. If you trying just a little bit, you will get a top 15 class here. Gene Chizik was getting top 5 recruits here. Gus Malzahn has done the craziest stuff you ever could do as an HC and is still able to get top 15 classes here. TT absolutely did not like recruiting and it showed. All of these coaches averaged around 8 wins during their duration as HC at Auburn. So we are the exact same program WITH either Average or unknown Coaches. Nothing has changed other than the other Major programs LSU, UGA seems to be projecting upwards. We are lucky the Aggies seem to be going backwards. We can't afford to stay stuck in the mud for too long. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

1). Our coach has a horrible record against Kirby Smart and coach O. He is 1-7 against them I believe. With this in mind, those programs are going upwards versus our program. When Gus became the HC at Auburn, both of those programs were dealing with identity crisis. Richt had lost his way and Les had no idea what he was doing. Those were the perfect opportunity to jump on them before they found their way. 2016 was the perfect opportunity to shut the UGA momentum down, the same with 2017 LSU. Yet, we haven't found a way to get over the hump against those squads. You have to start proving to prospects you can beat those teams in order to start stealing recruits. Moreover, you need to have a rational plan in part or else you will always lose those key recruits to our rivals. Dan Mullen is going to eventually run right passed him at UF as well. The program is staying stagnant while other programs will continue to get better. Coach problem.

2). You need to have a vision. It is pointless to have myriads of skill people if you don't use them correctly. Even more, if your vision is predicament on running the ball, you need to make sure you have a QUALITY LINE year in and year out. You also need to make sure you have viable back up plans, year in and year out. No reason we should have to go the JUCO route annually for QBs and Offensive linemen. Cord Sandberg is our back up now. A guy who hasn't played since high school. It didn't have to be this way. And Bo Nix does not seem to be progressing against Quality teams. The assumption would be he can have a Joe Burrow 180 season next year. But if he doesn't, we will be in the same predicament next year as we are this year. Coaching problem. I am in agreement here as far as QBs. We went from having a good QB situation to a bad one in a few short months. Again, Coach issue. Not only that, but with TX portal being a thing now Programs across the country are going to have this and have to adapt. QB recruiting has improved the past 2 cycles. 

3). You have to win when you have the horses to make a run. The defense he has this year is great. I don't particularly think the defense will be as seasoned next year. This can be a problem along with QB play and offensive line woes. Maybe I am being negative, but I don't see us getting any better from that front based on who we are losing and what we are bringing in. I just don't. I agree again. I still think we will have a very good Defense next year with what horses we have coming back, but not near as good on the front. So we half way disagree...or agree....I guess you would say disagree since you insisted that we do not agree on anything all night even though I have literally agreed with most of what you have said. 

With all this being said, This does not mean we won't win 8-9 games next year. TBH, you can take the top 24 coaches of ranked teams currently and win 8 games ANNUALLY with our talent. Heck, Oregon is a good squad , but there is no reason why we should think our team should EVER lose to Oregon. On paper alone, top to bottom, we are more talented than them. Basically what I am saying the program is what the program is. There is no ground breaking work being done here. AU is a legit, respectable program. If you trying just a little bit, you will get a top 15 class here. Gene Chizik was getting top 5 recruits here. Gus Malzahn has done the craziest stuff you ever could do as an HC and is still able to get top 15 classes here. TT absolutely did not like recruiting and it showed. All of these coaches averaged around 8 wins during their duration as HC at Auburn. So we are the exact same program WITH either Average or unknown Coaches. Nothing has changed other than the other Major programs LSU, UGA seems to be projecting upwards. We are lucky the Aggies seem to be going backwards. We can't afford to stay stuck in the mud for too long. 

Ok....so in agreement of the part about the OL ...and that is not a one year fix. It appears as if we are starting to address it, but I don't have faith in HCGM to continue to address it or hire someone who will do so properly. Other than that....how do you disagree about the state of the program? Everything you mentioned here are issues with the coach. I agree....even though you try to act as if I am not....I fully agree....but the program is steady. We have a good group of kids and have good culture....we are not getting in trouble (IDK what myself, you or anybody think of Gus that cannot be disputed. Gus has kept us clean and disciplined better than any coach in my lifetime). So the program , not the coach, are in a good position. We can make a change and the new coach would not have to rebuild. They could come in and if half way decent be competing within a year. We literally agree on nearly everything you said....but you want to say you disagree about the program being in good shape....well...it is.  "AU is a legit, respectable program"  that is currently recruiting at a high level, playing at a high level as a team, and is a good coach away from being an elite program.

[Michael X 74]

On 11/12/2019 at 7:08 PM, AuJoe said:

Gotta watch out when using averages because they can show you things you might not want to see. Do I think that would've been what Auburn would've done to those teams in Jordan-Hare...I have no idea. As anyone watching the games would have to admit, Auburn was a few Bo Nix bad passes and a step out-of-bounds from winning both those games at their places. What might've happened had they been at JH? I'm guessing we might've at least gotten a few of those holding calls and a few less procedure calls.

I guess the Georgia and Alabama games will give us some sort of idea how much the road hurt us...maybe/maybe not.

Pretty good observations, there's at least one sportswriter (I'd venture to say there's a lot more) that agrees with you...

[aubaseball 2,819]

On 11/12/2019 at 7:08 PM, AuJoe said:

Not arguing your point but just to be fair if we are going to start throwing out stats lets at least break them down a little more apples to apples...make of them what you will

(Not including Auburn because that skews the stats up since Auburn did better than the others for the most part)

Fla on the road gives up: 435 yds and 30 points

Fla neutral site gives up: 350 yds and 22 points

Fla at home gives up: 202 yds and .75 (less than 1) points

AU at Fla: 269 yds and 13 points (both above the Fla home average)

LSU on the road gives up: 446 yds and 33 points

LSU at home gives up: 248 yds and 13 points

AU at LSU: 287 yds and 20 points (both above the LSU home average)

One could see that Florida and LSU (like most teams) do much better at home than on the road. One could also see that Auburn did better at their sites than their average opponent did. One could draw the conclusion that Fla gives up 199 more yards on the road than at home on average as well as 26 more points and that LSU gives up 198 more yards on the road and 20 more points on average. One final conclusion one could draw would be that Auburn would've put up 468 yards and 39 points on Florida and 485 yards and 40 points on LSU had those games been at Auburn if we're basing everything on averages.

Gotta watch out when using averages because they can show you things you might not want to see. Do I think that would've been what Auburn would've done to those teams in Jordan-Hare...I have no idea. As anyone watching the games would have to admit, Auburn was a few Bo Nix bad passes and a step out-of-bounds from winning both those games at their places. What might've happened had they been at JH? I'm guessing we might've at least gotten a few of those holding calls and a few less procedure calls.

I guess the Georgia and Alabama games will give us some sort of idea how much the road hurt us...maybe/maybe not.

Good post joe.  Someone actually taking the time to look at all the right stuff.   

I truly believe that if Stidham would have returned this year, AU is undefeated.   Each game is played out in different degrees and a few plays here or there determines the outcome.   A few different play calls make the difference as well.   

My position on the overall feeling of the situation is that there are plays that could have been made by players, and there are times that the coaching could have been drastically better. 

[DAG 34,751]

41 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

Good post joe.  Someone actually taking the time to look at all the right stuff.   

I truly believe that if Stidham would have returned this year, AU is undefeated.   Each game is played out in different degrees and a few plays here or there determines the outcome.   A few different play calls make the difference as well.   

My position on the overall feeling of the situation is that there are plays that could have been made by players, and there are times that the coaching could have been drastically better. 

The only problem with all those wonderful stats is the fact that this is the first team Auburn will face at Home with some sort of a pulse.

our Home games have been against teams much less talented than us. The same could probably be said about LSU and UGA. Context means everything. 

[Tiger 8,854]

Yup if Stidham is here we're likely undefeated. But him and his family realized what kind of leadership there was in the program and he decided to bolt before his own reputation was sullied any further.