Malzahn’s QB mismanagement costs Auburn again

[AUFriction 1,179]

This is in my field referred to as Halo Error. When perceptions about someone’s performance are generally positive, everything that’s done is viewed through a positive lens. When perceptions about performance are generally negative, people tend to assume everything they are doing is wrong.

In this case, there are things that Gus has done that he deserves blame for. However, the loss of Joey is not a failure on Gus. We had two high profile QBs both in the same year that were in competition for 1 slot. One of the two was always going to transfer. Quite frankly, I’m surprised Joey stuck around. If I were him, I would have left a week after losing the job. It’s not bad sportsmanship. It’s not personal. It’s strictly business. 

Some folks have said that Joey stuck around because he was promised play time. Surely that wasn’t the reason. He’s not the starter, so he was only ever going to get situational reps, which isn’t enough snaps to try to move to the next level. 

[bigbird 60,939]

7 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

why do people complain about click bait? they do not want to see it printed. it is pretty obvious to me.

No one has complained about anything. Stop your victim schtick. It's tiresome

[Mikey 16,781]

52 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you going to censure what i post now mikey?

I didn't censure anything. I understand that you didn't write that story. Its headline is, indeed, a perfect example of this State's media doing another hatchet job on Auburn.  Anybody that doesn't see that is being deliberately blind.

PS: In no way, shape or form did I ask you to stop posting click bait or any other thing. How you came to that conclusion I can't imagine. Sometimes I read the articles you post and sometimes I don't. Post away.

[doverstutts 1,643]

4 hours ago, gr82be said:

The biggest thing to me in all of this is that Gus is a terrible evaluator of quarterbacks who also can't develop even the better ones he lands. Even Stidham regressed his Junior year. Gus landed Bo because Bo's a legacy. He could end up wrecking him before it's over because he wasn't ready for the spotlight yet. These QBs are leaving because they can't develop under Gus. He's terrible at it. It's simple, if Joey doesn't play he doesn't develop. Bo won't get any better either as long a Gus is at Auburn. The common denominator is Gus, not the bench sitting QBs who left. The names you mentioned were all interchangeable parts in the equation. I think Joey's situation is different. I never heard Gus say over and over that the other names you listed were special talents who he has to find a way to get them in the game. Nope, just Joey, and he went back on his statement time after time. People don't like being lied to Mikey. You can defend Gus over and over but it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't know what to do with a QB out of high school. He can't develop them or he can't evaluate them, it's one or the other. You choose, but either way Gus is the issue. 

100% undeniable FACT !!!! Great post, and I would send you money if I knew where to send it

[aubiefifty 18,222]

12 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I didn't censure anything. I understand that you didn't write that story. Its headline is, indeed, a perfect example of this State's media doing another hatchet job on Auburn.  Anybody that doesn't see that is being deliberately blind.

PS: In no way, shape or form did I ask you to stop posting click bait or any other thing. How you came to that conclusion I can't imagine. Sometimes I read the articles you post and sometimes I don't. Post away.

i made a mistake mikey and lumped you in with others in the past that have. i apologize. if i was trying to be mean or hateful would i have gone out of my way to send you that little auburn treasure? it is early.one cup. my mind is rolling because i some serious issues with social security. no excuse but fact. but again i apologize. i am never above an apology if i am wrong and people are not fanning the flames.............

[Mikey 16,781]

3 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i made a mistake mikey and lumped you in with others in the past that have. i apologize. if i was trying to be mean or hateful would i have gone out of my way to send you that little auburn treasure? it is early.one cup. my mind is rolling because i some serious issues with social security. no excuse but fact. but again i apologize. i am never above an apology if i am wrong and people are not fanning the flames.............

No problem, we're good.

[keesler 5,957]

36 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

This is in my field referred to as Halo Error. When perceptions about someone’s performance are generally positive, everything that’s done is viewed through a positive lens. When perceptions about performance are generally negative, people tend to assume everything they are doing is wrong.

In this case, there are things that Gus has done that he deserves blame for. However, the loss of Joey is not a failure on Gus. We had two high profile QBs both in the same year that were in competition for 1 slot. One of the two was always going to transfer. Quite frankly, I’m surprised Joey stuck around. If I were him, I would have left a week after losing the job. It’s not bad sportsmanship. It’s not personal. It’s strictly business. 

Some folks have said that Joey stuck around because he was promised play time. Surely that wasn’t the reason. He’s not the starter, so he was only ever going to get situational reps, which isn’t enough snaps to try to move to the next level. 

I think Joey stuck around because #1 the kid loves Auburn he has for 4 yrs, he is a leader on that team and his charisma and enthusiasm was tops/.

He wanted to be the starter and when he didn't make Gus' cut, he took it like a man and tried to work with the staff to find a way to get on the field to contribute.  Gus said Joey was a special talent, that they were 1a-1b Qbs and the he and his staff would create packages for Joey and he'd get the PT he wanted.

You're right, it's strictly business.  But Gus made it personal when he yanked Joey back to the sideline Joey's package presented itself - he made it very personal when HE chose to put in an injured Whitlow over a perfectly healthy Gatewood.  I don't see those actions as a business decision.  Good business wouldn't been to give Joey a shot to get something going and try to move the chains when Bo was floundering again in a big game. 

It is what it is now, but to not lay some blame on the choices of the HC/OC is disingenuous IMO.  

[doverstutts 1,643]

Total Offense

10. SMU - under Lashlee as OC

28. Troy- Under Chip

 

57. AU - under the Guru/ QB Whisperer

[keesler 5,957]

2 minutes ago, doverstutts said:

Total Offense

10. SMU - under Lashlee as OC

28. Troy- Under Chip

 

57. AU - under the Guru/ QB Whisperer

Personally, I don't think Gus could've hired a proven OC to come work for him if he even wanted one.  Dilly at 28 yrs old got the job of a lifetime for his level of experience, same for Kodi & Carnell (who'd never coached college ball.)

[doverstutts 1,643]

12 minutes ago, keesler said:

Personally, I don't think Gus could've hired a proven OC to come work for him if he even wanted one.  Dilly at 28 yrs old got the job of a lifetime for his level of experience, same for Kodi & Carnell (who'd never coached college ball.)

I think you are probably 100% correct and thats damn sad, is it not?

[keesler 5,957]

3 minutes ago, doverstutts said:

I think you are probably 100% correct and thats damn sad, is it not?

What's sad is when you compare them to other's in our conference/division.  

Honestly, I think Gus has hired the best guys he can get.  He's shown his hand for years and anyone that will work for him are guys that see that big $$ payday and they want to ride that gravy train as long as Auburn is fueling it.  Imagine Carnell coming back home and pulling a massive salary with zero college experience under his belt....He hit the jackpot big time.  Same for Dilly coming from Memphis and pulling bank at a power P5 in the strongest conference in the nation.😎

[doverstutts 1,643]

You know Keesler, I don't know what emotion I feel. Its frustration, resignation, anger, sadness, WTH, despair, hopelessness all rolled into one feeling. I used to love AU football, "damn the torpedos,full speed ahead" gungho style. Now, I don't know how much I really care. Losses used to bug me all the next week and I replayed the game over and over in my head with the "what if" throw in.  Now? I just accept it. I used to think AU had a chance to win every damn time they ran on the field. Now, only against the inferior opponents do I feel like we will win. I turned my real passion to basketball now, as long as the status quo continues as it is. I am just so tired of seeing so much talent wasted and misused

[I_M4_AU 8,933]

2 hours ago, AUFriction said:

This is in my field referred to as Halo Error. When perceptions about someone’s performance are generally positive, everything that’s done is viewed through a positive lens. When perceptions about performance are generally negative, people tend to assume everything they are doing is wrong.

In this case, there are things that Gus has done that he deserves blame for. However, the loss of Joey is not a failure on Gus. We had two high profile QBs both in the same year that were in competition for 1 slot. One of the two was always going to transfer. Quite frankly, I’m surprised Joey stuck around. If I were him, I would have left a week after losing the job. It’s not bad sportsmanship. It’s not personal. It’s strictly business. 

Some folks have said that Joey stuck around because he was promised play time. Surely that wasn’t the reason. He’s not the starter, so he was only ever going to get situational reps, which isn’t enough snaps to try to move to the next level. 

You stated the situation in Gus’ perception and neglected Joey’s. I’m sure Gus feels he is not to blame for Joey’s decision as he deflects responsibility in a lot of areas.  However, Joey has lived under the Halo Effect since the day he committed to Auburn and has stayed there until Saturday October 26th.  Joey redshirted in 2018 and had to earn his number back because his mentor told him that is what he had to do.  He started Spring practice in competition with another highly qualified QB and showed he belonged in that competition. 

Fall Camp started and Joey, I’m sure, felt confident.  Bo was announced as the starter, but Joey (still under the Halo Effect) was promised PT in certain *packages* in meaningful situations and that appeared to be true through the first 5 games.  I’m not sure how you can say you are surprised he stuck around knowing Joey, an impressionable 19 year old under the Halo Effect, believed his mentor when he said he was going to get meaningful snaps.  Are you saying Joey should have known not to trust Gus?  

Fast forward to the U of F game and Joey doesn’t play.  The first chink in the armor so to speak, but hey, the Arkansas game restored the Halo in it’s proper place.  Then came the LSU game and Joey not playing during the obvious *package* situation turned the situation around. You could almost see the horns grow on the sidelines as the Horn Effect took over his thought process.

Joey’s eyes were opened to the ridged rod of reality and may or may not have remembered JJ’s experience with sitting on the sidelines for two years not developing.  I believe the Horn Effect was the reason he quit the team as promises were broken by his mentor so there was no reason to keep his.  Joey now has the motivation he needs to become the best QB he can be.  I hope he makes the best decision for him and proves he has what it takes to be a starting QB.  After all, you can only count on what your earn.

[Carnell 600]

3 hours ago, keesler said:

Personally, I don't think Gus could've hired a proven OC to come work for him if he even wanted one.  Dilly at 28 yrs old got the job of a lifetime for his level of experience, same for Kodi & Carnell (who'd never coached college ball.)

You might be right now but Gus before he hired Lindsey interviewed about 5 highly qualified OC canadiates.

[Beaker 2,457]

3 hours ago, keesler said:

But Gus made it personal when he yanked Joey back to the sideline Joey's package presented itself - he made it very personal when HE chose to put in an injured Whitlow over a perfectly healthy Gatewood.  I don't see those actions as a business decision. 

 

It is an egregious error in judgment  to go with Whitlow over Gatewood in short yardage when you have a 6-5, 233 man who desperately wants and needs to play when possible.   Whitlow is still limited and so is Gus' judgment.

 

I have so wanted to love Gus, but you can't gloss over the dumb football decisions he makes that cost us games.   If they didn't cost you games, so be it.

1.  17 times up the middle on the road at LSU....

2.  letting Bo flounder series after series -  just put in someone and run the Wildcat 3 times - give him a breather and coach him some.   One series!

3. maybe a fake punt when you are down two scores on the road with a punter who played Aussie Rules Football - ie can take some contact. 

YOU ARE PLAYING THE #2 TEAM IN THE COUNTY, ON THE ROAD AND YOU INSIST ON  A RUN FIRST OFFENSE WHEN YOU CAN'T RUN UP THE MIDDLE?!?!?!?!?  

It is 'telling' when Joey leaves midseason vs. sticking around until December.   Remember this kid was a HUGE recruiter for Auburn before he got here.  'Tells me' the offensive players know Gus can't coach offense.

 

 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 hours ago, keesler said:

Personally, I don't think Gus could've hired a proven OC to come work for him if he even wanted one.  Dilly at 28 yrs old got the job of a lifetime for his level of experience, same for Kodi & Carnell (who'd never coached college ball.)

 

26 minutes ago, Carnell said:

You might be right now but Gus before he hired Lindsey interviewed about 5 highly qualified OC canadiates.

Yup. Could've gotten a stud when he hired Lindsey. (Maybe Lindsey is a stud. Remains to be seen.)

But keesler is right, that ship has sailed. No OC who is capable and wants to have any say in the offense will ever work for him again. And that does in fact go for the entire offensive staff. It would just be guys who just want "Auburn" on their resume before they go somewhere else to learn how to actually coach. Or guys who couldn't do laundry for most big programs. 

[I_M4_AU 8,933]

1 hour ago, Beaker said:

It is an egregious error in judgment  to go with Whitlow over Gatewood in short yardage when you have a 6-5, 233 man who desperately wants and needs to play when possible.   Whitlow is still limited and so is Gus' judgment.

To add to this, Whitlow has an injury that would limit his ability to drive the ball for that extra yard or two, especially on a rained soaked field he was playing on in BTR.  A mistake no matter how you look at it, but that’s the Gus we love.

[AUFriction 1,179]

10 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

You stated the situation in Gus’ perception and neglected Joey’s. I’m sure Gus feels he is not to blame for Joey’s decision as he deflects responsibility in a lot of areas.  However, Joey has lived under the Halo Effect since the day he committed to Auburn and has stayed there until Saturday October 26th.  Joey redshirted in 2018 and had to earn his number back because his mentor told him that is what he had to do.  He started Spring practice in competition with another highly qualified QB and showed he belonged in that competition. 

Fall Camp started and Joey, I’m sure, felt confident.  Bo was announced as the starter, but Joey (still under the Halo Effect) was promised PT in certain *packages* in meaningful situations and that appeared to be true through the first 5 games.  I’m not sure how you can say you are surprised he stuck around knowing Joey, an impressionable 19 year old under the Halo Effect, believed his mentor when he said he was going to get meaningful snaps.  Are you saying Joey should have known not to trust Gus?  

Fast forward to the U of F game and Joey doesn’t play.  The first chink in the armor so to speak, but hey, the Arkansas game restored the Halo in it’s proper place.  Then came the LSU game and Joey not playing during the obvious *package* situation turned the situation around. You could almost see the horns grow on the sidelines as the Horn Effect took over his thought process.

Joey’s eyes were opened to the ridged rod of reality and may or may not have remembered JJ’s experience with sitting on the sidelines for two years not developing.  I believe the Horn Effect was the reason he quit the team as promises were broken by his mentor so there was no reason to keep his.  Joey now has the motivation he needs to become the best QB he can be.  I hope he makes the best decision for him and proves he has what it takes to be a starting QB.  After all, you can only count on what your earn.

My post was not from Gus’s perspective. It was from logic. Joey made a bad decision to stick around. He was never going to get more than situational reps. Very few programs use a true 2 QB system because quite frankly they never work out. Using a two quarterback system nowadays means you have two quarterbacks that do 1-2 things well, but no QB that’s a solid starter. I’m pretty surprised Joey (nor his family) picked up on that. Regardless of what you think of Gus or who we had as head coach, Joey as never going to get quality reps when Bo was picked.

Back in the summer, that’s why I was actually pulling for Joey to win the job. I figured if Joey won, Bo would redshirt, and this would be the only way we kept both quarterbacks. With this situation, both would get at least a year, and, if Joey left early, Bo would get 2 years. With Bo picked as the starter, Joey was inevitably going to transfer because he would never get real reps under any decent coach unless the starter really didn’t pan out or got hurt. Gus’s decision to play him or not had little to do with it... at least it shouldn’t if Joey is smart.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

22 hours ago, Mikey said:

And all those QB's who left AU have done such great things at their next stop! Tyler Queen is the starting TE at West Georgia, Woody Barrett is the second string QB at Kent State, Malik Willis is waiting his turn at Liberty College and....and.... Well I guess the others just faded away into stardom in the NFL where they are setting records and making millions. Who were those guys who left AU and starred at QB elsewhere? Surely there must be a couple dozen but I can't recall a single name right now. Help my memory out?

The headline is a perfect example of the state's media smearing Auburn.

So they weren't any good yet Gus evaluated and recruited them?  That sounds like a problem.

[SumterAubie 3,085]

The thing I"m pissed off about here is a series or two against lsu is likely all Gatewood needed to be satisfied.  And still on the team. But that stupid ass Malzahn can't see that.  It's not like Nix was chunking it for 250 and two tds each game.

Gatewood- 'Damn coach. Put me in. Let me show what I can do'. 

And the longer the game went with him standing on the sideline watching the sh!t show taking place on the field, the easier it became to say 'screw this' I'm out of here.

I would like to know if any of the other coaches had the balls to suggest putting Gatewood in. 

[doverstutts 1,643]

10 hours ago, SumterAubie said:

I would like to know if any of the other coaches had the balls to suggest putting Gatewood in. 

Hell no, you know they didn't (except possibly Caddy) because all he hires is "yes" men. He is too insecure to actually hire someone who has experience in running a real collegiate offense. Basketball season is here, so I can at least be able to watch one competent coach and staff develop their players to play at a level that can compete with anybody and WIN

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 hours ago, dyehardfanAU said:

So they weren't any good yet Gus evaluated and recruited them?  That sounds like a problem.

Pretty hilarious that the clown car crew cites Gus's terrible qb recruiting as an acceptable excuse for his offenses sucking ass over and over again.

[I_M4_AU 8,933]

12 hours ago, AUFriction said:

My post was not from Gus’s perspective. It was from logic. Joey made a bad decision to stick around. He was never going to get more than situational reps. Very few programs use a true 2 QB system because quite frankly they never work out. Using a two quarterback system nowadays means you have two quarterbacks that do 1-2 things well, but no QB that’s a solid starter. I’m pretty surprised Joey (nor his family) picked up on that. Regardless of what you think of Gus or who we had as head coach, Joey as never going to get quality reps when Bo was picked.

Back in the summer, that’s why I was actually pulling for Joey to win the job. I figured if Joey won, Bo would redshirt, and this would be the only way we kept both quarterbacks. With this situation, both would get at least a year, and, if Joey left early, Bo would get 2 years. With Bo picked as the starter, Joey was inevitably going to transfer because he would never get real reps under any decent coach unless the starter really didn’t pan out or got hurt. Gus’s decision to play him or not had little to do with it... at least it shouldn’t if Joey is smart.

I must have been confused by your first paragraph of your OP that mentioned Halo Error and perception.  If you live in an absolute world I can see you point, however, things that effect decision making is not so black and white.  Many times we have to look back and see where our decision making went awry.  I’m sure Joey is doing that now and trying to figure out his best course of action going forward.  I wish him the best of luck.

[I_M4_AU 8,933]

1 hour ago, doverstutts said:

Hell no, you know they didn't (except possibly Caddy) because all he hires is "yes" men. He is too insecure to actually hire someone who has experience in running a real collegiate offense. Basketball season is here, so I can at least be able to watch one competent coach and staff develop their players to play at a level that can compete with anybody and WIN

To add to this; I’m sure Gus has shut down the open lines of communication between other coaches (other then Dilly for play calling only) during the games.  His mind can’t accept anything that will change his line of thinking.  He can not adapt.  There have been many examples of this; going back to playing SW when he was obviously unable to perform in 2015.  After the fact is just too late and he doesn’t understand the criticism. JMO.

[Beaker 2,457]

Gus gives my tired-head.

I think I need to stay off the forum for a week or two. 

This really drives me insane.