Fall Camp: Day 5 Observations (8/6)

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 hours ago, Sizzle said:

It seems like some of y’all are making it seem like Auburn is the only team who doesn’t go live with their QB’s. Even when the QB’s aren’t getting hit, they still count sacks if the QB doesn’t release the ball quick enough. It’s not like they’re back there counting 1 Mississippi 2 Mississippi. QB’s are just too important for them to go live every practice 

As @cole256 said, none of that matters when the QB knows he's not actually going to get hit. 

Look at Stidham last season and how much his behavior and and out of the pocket changed once he knew that he had no protection and that every 3rd down meant a deep ball that took 20 seconds to develop. Now read reports out of Foxboro about how he's quietly a rising star in a different offense that has protected the QB (along with the help of the NFL) better than possibly any in history. 

These guys won't be ready for game situations if they haven't faced them. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Oh, and we currently sit at QB1A and QB1B with a 230 lb Team Dad behind them. We don't have to conduct our business assuming the worst is going to happen, especially when it's to the detriment of our season. 

Might be another reason that his juco guys have done better than his high school guys. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

21 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

As @cole256 said, none of that matters when the QB knows he's not actually going to get hit. 

Look at Stidham last season and how much his behavior and and out of the pocket changed once he knew that he had no protection and that every 3rd down meant a deep ball that took 20 seconds to develop. Now read reports out of Foxboro about how he's quietly a rising star in a different offense that has protected the QB (along with the help of the NFL) better than possibly any in history. 

These guys won't be ready for game situations if they haven't faced them. 

It didn't really matter last season as there were no other available options remotely ready for SEC play.  I do understand what you're saying though.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

It didn't really matter last season as there were no other available options remotely ready for SEC play.  I do understand what you're saying though.

Yeah, and he was actually a guy who didn't need live fire in fall camp because he'd already started for a full season. Just an example of how a QB plays differently under different circumstances. 

[Sizzle 3,948]

32 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

As @cole256 said, none of that matters when the QB knows he's not actually going to get hit. 

Look at Stidham last season and how much his behavior and and out of the pocket changed once he knew that he had no protection and that every 3rd down meant a deep ball that took 20 seconds to develop. Now read reports out of Foxboro about how he's quietly a rising star in a different offense that has protected the QB (along with the help of the NFL) better than possibly any in history. 

These guys won't be ready for game situations if they haven't faced them. 

That’s not a live practice thing. That’s a Stidham thing. I need to see reports where a really good QB has come out and said he’s so good because of live practices 

[bigbird 60,926]

Stidham's happy feet were a direct correlation to his OL being on their butts.

[DAG 34,555]

Just now, bigbird said:

Stidham's happy feet were a direct correlation to his OL being in their butts.

No he had happy feet in 2017 when he was well protected too. 

[bigbird 60,926]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

No he had happy feet in 2017 when he was well protected too. 

Agree to disagree

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, Sizzle said:

That’s not a live practice thing. That’s a Stidham thing. I need to see reports where a really good QB has come out and said he’s so good because of live practices 

Who said anything about a QB being good because of live practices?? The entire conversation has been about evaluation, and how you can't properly evaluate a QB's potential in live game situations if they haven't been in live practice situations.

This is interesting. I remember a rising "experience doesn't matter" sentiment last season. It seems to be resurfacing in this conversation. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Stidham's happy feet were a direct correlation to his OL being in their butts.

Exactly. And after nearly getting murdered a few dozen times, the happy feet remained on the rare occasions that the protection was there. IMO. 

I wasn't being literal with the Stidham thing, but maybe it was a bad analogy. 

 

[DAG 34,555]

18 minutes ago, Sizzle said:

That’s not a live practice thing. That’s a Stidham thing. I need to see reports where a really good QB has come out and said he’s so good because of live practices 

Like most young quarterbacks, Stidham does tend to milk his internal clock dry as he waits for an open receiver. Practice rules prohibit quarterbacks from being hit, so he can patiently bounce in the pocket for five-plus seconds or roll out to the white of the sideline in order to extend a play. His teammates are confident the pace and space of his play will quicken and shorten with time.

So basically, this is like a skeleton drill at the patriots camp. Some of you posters say one thing and in the very same post contradict yourself. Lol it is baffling  

BTW, I am agreeing with you @Sizzle

 

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2019/08/patriots-rookie-qb-jarrett-stidham-is-the-quietest-rising-star-of-training-camp.html

[bigbird 60,926]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

The entire conversation has been about evaluation, and how you can't properly evaluate a QB's potential in live game situations if they haven't been in live practice situations.

Maybe in the evaluation is being limited to the most unknown aspects. JG's running is pretty much a given, his passing has not been. While Bo's passing is a given, his command/control and offensive knowledge is not. Just a thought

[DAG 34,555]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

Maybe in the evaluation is being limited to the most unknown aspects. JG's running is pretty much a given, his passing has not been. While Bo's passing is a given, his command/control and offensive knowledge is not. Just a thought

Where were you last night when I was trying to say this?  You stated this perfectly.

[abw0004 10,244]

If I may throw my hat into the ring:  I am perfectly fine with not having the QB's go live.  Many may not recall, but earlier in the year Gus had all of his QB's go live.  So he coaches have seen first hand who they can do scrambling.  The purpose of evaluating in these first practices for all players competing for a starting job is to find their weak points, and press.  JG's weaker point is throwing if nothing else due to the fact that he is less experienced than even Bo in throwing.  Gatewood has not been a quarterback all of his life, or even a starter.  Did not start at his high school.  So let's throw all we can at him and see if he reacts positively.  For Bo Nix, let's test his comfort with the playbook.  Have the defense throw in mixed coverages and see how he can dissect it.

Even right now in the joint-NFL practices, the QB's are not supposed to be hit.  This was an issue raised by Aaron Rodgers yesterday when DeShaun Watson was knocked down by the Green Bay defense.  Now I do concede the point that QB's are much different in live situations though.  However, your accuracy typically gets worse with a defender in your face, so if you are having accuracy troubles without pressure, it could be safe to assume they get worse live.

[DAG 34,555]

11 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Maybe in the evaluation is being limited to the most unknown aspects. JG's running is pretty much a given, his passing has not been. While Bo's passing is a given, his command/control and offensive knowledge is not. Just a thought

And quite frankly, you can have a live joint practice like NFL teams to figure this out. I was lucky enough to go to the joint LIVE practice of the packers and none of their QBs can get hit, but they are still getting valuable reps. 

[DAG 34,555]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

If I may throw my hat into the ring:  I am perfectly fine with not having the QB's go live.  Many may not recall, but earlier in the year Gus had all of his QB's go live.  So he coaches have seen first hand who they can do scrambling.  The purpose of evaluating in these first practices for all players competing for a starting job is to find their weak points, and press.  JG's weaker point is throwing if nothing else due to the fact that he is less experienced than even Bo in throwing.  Gatewood has not been a quarterback all of his life, or even a starter.  Did not start at his high school.  So let's throw all we can at him and see if he reacts positively.  For Bo Nix, let's test his comfort with the playbook.  Have the defense throw in mixed coverages and see how he can dissect it.

Even right now in the joint-NFL practices, the QB's are not supposed to be hit.  This was an issue raised by Aaron Rodgers yesterday when DeShaun Watson was knocked down by the Green Bay defense.  Now I do concede the point that QB's are much different in live situations though.  However, your accuracy typically gets worse with a defender in your face, so if you are having accuracy troubles without pressure, it could be safe to assume they get worse live.

I got a chance to watch it this week bro! It was fascinating. 

[AUApostle 7,701]

9 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

  However, your accuracy typically gets worse with a defender in your face, so if you are having accuracy troubles without pressure, it could be safe to assume they get worse live.

So true.  I could sling the ball in practice...make all the throws.  But once the game started I would short-arm throws, finesse, and float them when pressure came.  And that was just flag football.

[Cardin Drake 2,074]

25 minutes ago, DAG said:

Like most young quarterbacks, Stidham does tend to milk his internal clock dry as he waits for an open receiver. Practice rules prohibit quarterbacks from being hit, so he can patiently bounce in the pocket for five-plus seconds or roll out to the white of the sideline in order to extend a play. His teammates are confident the pace and space of his play will quicken and shorten with time.

So basically, this is like a skeleton drill at the patriots camp. Some of you posters say one thing and in the very same post contradict yourself. Lol it is baffling  

BTW, I am agreeing with you @Sizzle

 

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2019/08/patriots-rookie-qb-jarrett-stidham-is-the-quietest-rising-star-of-training-camp.html

Great arm; kid just has to learn to get rid of the ball quicker. I'm rooting for him but skeptical.

[CodeRocket 410]

13 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Maybe in the evaluation is being limited to the most unknown aspects. JG's running is pretty much a given, his passing has not been. While Bo's passing is a given, his command/control and offensive knowledge is not. Just a thought

Maybe Oregon is doing their own evaluation and they are probably going to try to force which ever quarterback is in the game to do what they percieve that individual is less proficient at or least comfortable with.

Using this logic I believe JG will be the starter for the following reasons:

• We have a veteran offensive line that should be proficient at run blocking
• We have some pretty good running backs and JG is reportedly a very prolific runner
• JG is bigger than BN and should be able to handle the physical beating a running quarterback is going to absorb better
• The running game is going to be harder to stop than the passing game, especially early season
• If we are able to control the ball on the ground it will keep their offense off the field
• If the running game is keeping the ball away from Oregon, eventually they will have to bring their safetys down. We know that CGM likes to run the ball and throw deep

I know I am not qualified to instruct you or most on this board about football strategy but this stuff just seems like common sense, at least to a layman.

[McLoofus 35,182]

30 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Maybe in the evaluation is being limited to the most unknown aspects. JG's running is pretty much a given, his passing has not been. While Bo's passing is a given, his command/control and offensive knowledge is not. Just a thought

Oh, I get all that. Just seems that you can do that while going live in a scrimmage so that Joey's passing and Bo's command/control/knowledge can be evaluated in more game-like situations. 

Also, I wouldn't care in the least if we typically had good QB play under Gus. 

[DAG 34,555]

11 hours ago, AuMarine said:

I am with @DAG why wouldn’t it be a disadvantage to both QBs? (not going live). Nix can run as well. 

This underrated comment as well. I think some of us, including myself are undervaluing Nix's ability to escape pressure. The assumption is with a true live practice that would put JG over the top in a competition. 

[Barnacle 9,095]

15 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Also, I wouldn't care in the least if we typically had good QB play under Gus. 

Yep unfortunately this has to undergirdle all of his decisions

[DAG 34,555]

4 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Yep unfortunately this has to undergirdle all of his decisions

So, if Jimbo Fisher took this approach it would be okay, but since it is Gus, it deserves some questioning? Not calling you out, just trying to get your input my smart, lawyer friend.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Yep unfortunately this has to undergirdle all of his decisions

It will be interesting to see if we actually do put so much of this to bed by November. 

[Barnacle 9,095]

Just now, DAG said:

So, if Jimbo Fisher took this approach it would be okay, but since it is Gus, it deserves some questioning?

I don't know about Jimbo Fisher. I'm just saying that until Gus puts out a more consistent product at the QB position, people are naturally going to question his judgment in how he handles the quarterbacks.