Fall Camp: Day 5 Observations (8/6)

[cole256 17,085]

Everybody should be a good QB if you know you're not going to be touched

[DAG 34,553]

9 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

If one of Joey's biggest strengths is his ability to escape, run the inverter beer, or make plays with his feet when things break down, then it's way harder to assess that vs general decision making when there's no chance of getting hit.

It's possible that Nix is a more polished passer.  It would make sense as he trained under his dad, a former college QB, and took more snaps during HS since Joey split reps.  In that case, it's easier for Nix to make his case as a starter vs Gatewood because you are limiting what is potentially Joey's biggest strength.

Go back to 2010.  In spring practice, it was widely said that Cam was behind in the passing game compared to Trotter.  But as we all know, what made Cam so special was his size and running abilities to go along with a cannon of an arm.  You just can't simulate that.

So again it is about his running ability. Again, I DO NOT CONSIDER THIS A DISADVANTAGE. I think the coaching staff knows JG is a monster running. Same thing with Cam Newton. Cam Newton didn't learn how to dive in the end zone by going live against Auburn. He was doing that at Blinn. I legitimately watched him truck stick a lineman as a true freshman at UF during the spring game while Tebow watched on the sideline. No coach taught him how to do that. This is INNATE SKILL and god given talent. Going live would not have changed that skillset of him being able to do that. 

[DAG 34,553]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I get that and I'm telling you EVERYTHING is different throwing as well when you know you're not going to get hit. 

And if that is the case then it is equally disadvantage to both of them, correct?

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,992]

14 minutes ago, DAG said:

And the problem with not going live is Gus want call how he normally would call in that situation. This is why I think they know who the starter is. I think it is JG.

If the two of them are comparable, with taking out Joey's (presumed) biggest strength, IDK you'd really need to see the two live. No reason to get Joey, who you know is going to attempt to run way more often if live, banged up

[HarrisBoy334 63]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

Ok that's cool for you. My point is going live doesn't do hurt him throwing the ball in fact it just conditions him to get better as far as making reads under pressure in real time

So risking him getting hit low by a LB or getting fell on by DTs wouldn't make u flinch as a coach. I feel ya but hey I guess it's safer to run against that defense. U can work on when to give or keep the ball with an orange jersey on him.  He'll feel and smellthose big bodies swarming and attacking everything around three inches of him...lol

[cole256 17,085]

Just now, DAG said:

And if that is the case then it is equally disadvantage to both of them, correct?

Maybe or maybe not I tried to make it easy using another sport, if you tell a 6'7" guy to play a 6'2" guy in basketball but he can't post up you're limiting him and it's really not helping him to learn how to win. JG if he's tough, has a size and physical advantage so his performance after taking a few hits may differ from Bo and nobody can know unless they play live. Stamina is big in football especially with them because they don't get subs. Theoretically jg should be able to absorb more blows....if anything by now Gus should know what he has in both of them throwing the ball in non contact situations

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

So again it is about his running ability. Again, I DO NOT CONSIDER THIS A DISADVANTAGE. I think the coaching staff knows JG is a monster running. Same thing with Cam Newton. Cam Newton didn't learn how to dive in the end zone by going live against Auburn. He was doing that at Blinn. I legitimately watched him truck stick a lineman as a true freshman at UF doing the spring game while Tebow watched on the sideline. No coach taught him how to do that. This is INNATE SKILL and god given talent. Going live would not have changed that skillset of him being able to do that. 

Great, but the game plan is dramatically different depending on who the QB is right now.  If it's JG (and I agree with you and think he is the starter), the inside run with the QB is much more of a threat and likely opens the deep ball more.

If it's BN, then we're looking at a more Stidham/Shaun White style where there are occasional designed QB runs outside and maybe a few more intermediate passes.

You have to see which style is more effective with the rest of your offensive personnel.  That's why I'm advocating for going live once this summer.  We don't get a cupcake to start with.  Gotta get it right from the get go.

[DAG 34,553]

Just now, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

If the two of them are comparable, with taking out Joey's (presumed) biggest strength, IDK you'd really need to see the two live. No reason to get Joey, who you know is going to attempt to run way more often if live, banged up

Thank you. Again, this is why I think JG is already the starter.

[TexasTiger 14,070]

2 hours ago, Win4AU said:

Kelly Bryant apparently got hurt during Missouri’s practice.  I think Gus knows what Gatewood can do if needed.

Took him 4 games to know what Cam could do.

[cole256 17,085]

Just now, HarrisBoy334 said:

So risking him getting hit low by a LB or getting fell on by DTs wouldn't make u flinch as a coach. I feel ya but hey I guess it's safer to run against that defense. U can work on when to give or keep the ball with an orange jersey on him.  He'll feel and smellthose big bodies swarming and attacking everything around three inches of him...lol

In my experience with sports injuries happen when you go half speed and stuff. That's also a point you just said though. IMO cam was awesome at guarding his legs, when somebody went low he'd go lower and deliver the blow instead of take it. I imagine he learned that from playing guys who tackled him

[DAG 34,553]

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

Great, but the game plan is dramatically different depending on who the QB is right now.  If it's JG (and I agree with you and think he is the starter), the inside run with the QB is much more of a threat and likely opens the deep ball more.

If it's BN, then we're looking at a more Stidham/Shaun White style where there are occasional designed QB runs outside and maybe a few more intermediate passes.

You have to see which style is more effective with the rest of your offensive personnel.  That's why I'm advocating for going live once this summer.  We don't get a cupcake to start with.  Gotta get it right from the get go.

And I would 100 percent agree with you. But I think JG is the starter lol. So there is no reason for you to let him go live and beast on people and potentially get hurt is my point. That is why I don't think it is a disadvantage .  They know JG is a beast on the ground and I think they know what Bo Nix can do as well.

[HarrisBoy334 63]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Took him 4 games to know what Cam could do.

Cam was trucking cats at Florida and Blinn, he knew what Cam could do. I think Chizik held Cam back trying to make him what he wasn't and that was a passing QB who ran on occasions.

[cole256 17,085]

But hey that's just me, I'm a live guy, non contact makes you soft, non contact can give alot of people a chance to hide. I need to know my QB is not scared

[aujeff11 6,243]

I agree that:

Joey can’t show what he’s good at during non live portions.

I also agree this is advantageous to Nix

Lastly, I agree that Malzahn should already know what JG can do. 

 

[DAG 34,553]

20 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Maybe or maybe not I tried to make it easy using another sport, if you tell a 6'7" guy to play a 6'2" guy in basketball but he can't post up you're limiting him and it's really not helping him to learn how to win. JG if he's tough, has a size and physical advantage so his performance after taking a few hits may differ from Bo and nobody can know unless they play live. Stamina is big in football especially with them because they don't get subs. Theoretically jg should be able to absorb more blows....if anything by now Gus should know what he has in both of them throwing the ball in non contact situations

I think we have to agree to disagree. The defense already knows what he can do live. I don't know what making him go live again will prove at this point? I truly believe he is the starting QB and they don't want to risk him getting hurt. Proving that he has better stamina at absorbing more hits than Bo would prove what at that point, if this is the case? And you might be telling the 6'7 guy not to post up because you know he is excellent at that but instead not so great at his perimeter game. I don't think Ben Simmons needed to be taught how to dunk the ball. He had all world athleticism, but if his perimeter game is lacking well? Theoretically speaking a 6'7 guy should be able to shoot over and post up the 6'2 guy, no? Am I limited Kevin Durant's game by telling him not to post up, if he is just as adequate with the J? There will come a point in time where you can't just rely on your post up game.

Now if you are arguing that he should get more live reps to prepare for game 1 as the starter, that is a whole different discussion. 

[AuburnTiger4Life 2,225]

Thoughts @passthebiscuits ? Still think JG has the job or is Nix making a push? 

[Barnacle 9,095]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Not about knowing capabilities. But you just brought up a good point, how do you know he's a turnover machine without it being live? You can't even know 100% their decision making without it being live.

You can play basketball everyday and not be in shape for a real game, and you can be great at pick up and horrible when it's time to play with refs

If you're a turnover machine when you aren't live, I can almost guarantee you are going to be one when the lights come on. The only exception I could really see is if he's making good reads in practice and throwing bad balls. I could see someone like that focusing in and making more accurate throws in a game. But if a guy doesn't know where to throw it in practice, he sure as hell won't know where to throw it during a game. 

[DAG 34,553]

I honestly think the truth of the matter is Bo is a more polished passer and JG is a more polished runner. That is just the bottomline. And now people hear live practices and think, "oh crap" that takes away JG advantage from Bo. JG has maturity, leadership, a year under his belt and athleticism over Bo Nix. All of that considered, I don't foresee Bo Nix overtaking JG unless he just has some crazy mental meltdown. 

Edit: And Nix came in polished right into the spring, the same way JG came in very athletic since his days at the UA all-American game.

[aujeff11 6,243]

28 minutes ago, cole256 said:

But hey that's just me, I'm a live guy, non contact makes you soft, non contact can give alot of people a chance to hide. I need to know my QB is not scared

I agree. The sole reason why we joke about 7 on 7 camp warriors and all that stuff when they otherwise look the part except for the nitty gritty.

[cole256 17,085]

14 minutes ago, DAG said:

I think we have to agree to disagree. The defense already knows what he can do live. I don't know what making him go live again will prove at this point? I truly believe he is the starting QB and they don't want to risk him getting hurt. Proving that he has better stamina at absorbing more hits than Bo would prove what at that point, if this is the case? And you might be telling the 6'7 guy not to post up because you know he is excellent at that but instead not so great at his perimeter game. I don't think Ben Simmons needed to be taught how to dunk the ball. He had all world athleticism, but if his perimeter game is lacking well? Theoretically speaking a 6'7 guy should be able to shoot over and post up the 6'2 guy, no? Am I limited Kevin Durant's game by telling him not to post up, if he is just as adequate with the J? There will come a point in time where you can't just rely on your post up game.

Now if you are arguing that he should get more live reps to prepare for game 1 as the starter, that is a whole different discussion. 

Yes we can agree to disagree, I don't even completely understanding you guys saying already know what he can do.....nobody knows what these guys can do yet or a decision would already be made.....especially saying the defense already knows what he can do.......it don't work like that. It doesn't work well we know what he can do so now it's nullified

As far as the other points that's why you build and add on top of stuff but you don't say take this away....nobody is going to tell Bo to take away or ease up on his throwing (if it's true that he's a better passer) in a competition it should be go out there and win no holding back IMO

[cole256 17,085]

5 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

If you're a turnover machine when you aren't live, I can almost guarantee you are going to be one when the lights come on. The only exception I could really see is if he's making good reads in practice and throwing bad balls. I could see someone like that focusing in and making more accurate throws in a game. But if a guy doesn't know where to throw it in practice, he sure as hell won't know where to throw it during a game. 

I agree with that but that doesn't really answer what I'm saying, I'm saying how do you know a guy fumbles alot without hitting him? Also you need a few fumbles to learn how to more protect the ball, I'd rather see them in practice. And also just some natural thingslike switching hands and holding the ball out you're going to learn by repetition

[toddc 13,197]

What happened to this thread? I went to a two hour Bible study and came back to chaos. 😆 

[DAG 34,553]

5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Yes we can agree to disagree, I don't even completely understanding you guys saying already know what he can do.....nobody knows what these guys can do yet or a decision would already be made.....especially saying the defense already knows what he can do.......it don't work like that. It doesn't work well we know what he can do so now it's nullified

As far as the other points that's why you build and add on top of stuff but you don't say take this away....nobody is going to tell Bo to take away or ease up on his throwing (if it's true that he's a better passer) in a competition it should be go out there and win no holding back IMO

Why would anyone tell him that Cole? At the end of the day the QB position is about throwing the ball. It is a LUXURY to have an athletic QB. Again, I agree with you that we don't know what either of these guys can do on game day. 

We know JG can run, Cole. You know that. I know that. Gus knows that. That is all I am saying.  He has been doing it since high school, he did it in the UA game, he did it against Purdue and apparently, he has been doing it against our defense. So I am just confused as to why there is this anxiety about him not fully doing it now? He is not going to lose that ability all of a sudden against Oregon. 

[cole256 17,085]

7 minutes ago, DAG said:

I honestly think the truth of the matter is Bo is a more polished passer and JG is a more polished runner. That is just the bottomline. And now people hear live practices and think, "oh crap" that takes away JG advantage from Bo. JG has maturity, leadership, a year under his belt and athleticism over Bo Nix. All of that considered, I don't foresee Bo Nix overtaking JG unless he just has some crazy mental meltdown. 

That's always said though so I don't ever trust it and in your scenario it does take away a strength if we're talking bottom lines

[DAG 34,553]

1 minute ago, toddc said:

What happened to this thread? I went to a two hour Bible study and came back to chaos. 😆 

Two hour bible study?! What book?