Fall Camp: Day 5 Observations (8/6)

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Well, by it not being live, he can't just pull down and run (Which we all know he is capable of). It forces him to pass the ball and make correct decisions. Petrino did this same thing with Lamar Jackson prior to his sophomore year and it played dividends. Not saying Gus is Petrino like, but we know JG is an athletic beast. The key is can make the simple pass as well.

Other side: if Jeremy Johnson had gone live in practice, would we have known ahead of time how he performed when under pressure?  He was supposedly a monster when he couldn't be touched.

[DAG 34,555]

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Not about knowing capabilities. But you just brought up a good point, how do you know he's a turnover machine without it being live? You can't even know 100% their decision making without it being live.

You can play basketball everyday and not be in shape for a real game, and you can be great at pick up and horrible when it's time to play with refs

Like earlier you said it was a disadvantage to JG, but based on your own example, wouldn't it mean this is an equally disadvantage to Bo Nix too?

[DAG 34,555]

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

Other side: if Jeremy Johnson had gone live in practice, would we have known ahead of time how he performed when under pressure?  He was supposedly a monster when he couldn't be touched.

No because he performed very well against Arkansas in 2014 and that was what a lot of people based his potential on. Not a scrimmage. One half of play. People seem to forget that. And again, if this is the case then why aren't we saying it is equally disadvantage to both QBs?

[DAG 34,555]

And another thing to consider with going live is you are playing with people you are comfortable with. You know your defense, you know the defenders. It is a completely different manner playing against players and coaches you don't know. Honestly, if we went live among ourselves, I truly don't know how much I would trust it. However, I get people feeling the need to go live, but what I don't understand is why is it more of a disadvantage for JG vs Bo nix. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

11 minutes ago, DAG said:

No because he performed very well against Arkansas in 2014 and that was what a lot of people based his potential on. Not a scrimmage. One half of play. People seem to forget that. And again, if this is the case then why aren't we saying it is equally disadvantage to both QBs?

He did perform well against Arkansas and I haven't forgotten that.  But he also had the luxury of knowing that Nick was coming in half two.  Allows him to play a bit looser.

I don't think it's equally disadvantagous because you have players on record as saying Gatewood is a different player when live.  You have to take the fact that his size is a difference maker that Nix's isn't.  The only way to know, for me, who to go with is to let em loose for a day.

[cole256 17,085]

23 minutes ago, DAG said:

Well, by it not being live, he can't just pull down and run (Which we all know he is capable of). It forces him to pass the ball and make correct decisions. Petrino did this same thing with Lamar Jackson prior to his sophomore year and it played dividends. Not saying Gus is Petrino like, but we know JG is an athletic beast. The key is can make the simple pass as well.

I'm all for him throwing the ball I'm just saying there's nothing that prepares you to play like playing live....you can't even do a simple heart test without the stresses. 

[HarrisBoy334 63]

20 minutes ago, DAG said:

No because he performed very well against Arkansas in 2014 and that was what a lot of people based his potential on. Not a scrimmage. One half of play. People seem to forget that. And again, if this is the case then why aren't we saying it is equally disadvantage to both QBs?

The best example isn't JJ but Stidham. Would've known before the Clemson game once rattled he watches the rush not his check downs.

[DAG 34,555]

Just now, Brad_ATX said:

He did perform well against Arkansas and I haven't forgotten that.  But he also had the luxury of knowing that Nick was coming in half two.  Allows him to play a bit looser.

I don't think it's equally disadvantagous because you have players on record as saying Gatewood is a different pla

  You have to take the fact that his size is a difference maker that Nix's isn't.  The only way to know, for me, who to go with is to let em loose for a day.

Exactly. That is my biggest reason as to why Both Gus and Jeremy. Going live entering his Junior year in an offense he knows in his sleep to me was not the tipping point. The tipping point was now Jeremy Johnson was the primary QB and coaches can now game plan against that. When Arkansas played us in 2014, they were not prepared for a guy playing pitch and catch at FIRST. In the second quarter, things drastically changed. They adjusted and we start to lose momentum going into half.

Players have gone on record to say this, but why do you think that is the case? I have an inkling as to why, but  I still don't get why it wouldn't be an equal disadvantage to a true freshman who never has played a down of college football? His size is a difference maker? Okay? So what are you trying to say here?

[cole256 17,085]

22 minutes ago, DAG said:

Like earlier you said it was a disadvantage to JG, but based on your own example, wouldn't it mean this is an equally disadvantage to Bo Nix too?

Not in winning a job, you're literally talking away a top strength, like finding out who's the best wr but you can't run as fast as you can

[DAG 34,555]

2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I'm all for him throwing the ball I'm just saying there's nothing that prepares you to play like playing live....you can't even do a simple heart test without the stresses. 

I agree with that. I just want to know why is it more disadvantageous for JG vs Bo nix. Based on that wouldn't it be equally disadvantaged as they both are rather untested?

[DAG 34,555]

Just now, cole256 said:

Not in winning a job, you're literally talking away a top strength, like finding out who's the best wr but you can't run as fast as you can

So it is about his ability to run the ball correct? Why don't people just say that? LOL. I have already gone on record and saying I don't think that is a disadvantage because I believe Gus understands in a live situation JG would be able to make something happen if the pass option broke down. That is just my opinion. 

[3rdgeneration 6,625]

Aren't their other factors, like who's got the team? I think Gus will look at leadership, along with skill, if all is fairly close. I liked the way I saw Joey high-fiving the team with lots of energy. They responded back. It didn't seem as if Bo was quite as comfortable. I know that's a silly thing, but I was just kind of watching the body language.

[DAG 34,555]

3 minutes ago, HarrisBoy334 said:

The best example isn't JJ but Stidham. Would've known before the Clemson game once rattled he watches the rush not his check downs.

I absolutely agree with this. I am not disagreeing with the need to go live. Just the rationale as to why is it more of a disadvantage to Gatewood. The bottomline is this. People if it was just a straight pass skeleton drill, Bo Nix would probably have the edge. BUT GUESS WHAT GUYS? It is not. I think the coaching staff is smart enough to know that JG can make something happen out of nothing and that will definitely be in consideration.

[DAG 34,555]

Just now, 3rdgeneration said:

Aren't their other factors, like who's got the team? I think Gus will look at leadership, along with skill, if all is fairly close. I liked the way I saw Joey high-fiving the team with lots of energy. They responded back. It didn't seem as if Bo was quite as comfortable. I know that's a silly thing, but I was just kind of watching the body language.

Not silly at all.

[HarrisBoy334 63]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I'm all for him throwing the ball I'm just saying there's nothing that prepares you to play like playing live....you can't even do a simple heart test without the stresses. 

The QB ability to run is suppose to be 'extra' meat on the bone, not the bone. Would rather know he can make the throws then can effectively run if need be. If Bo can make ALL the throws at an elite level but runs just well enough to to have to be accounted for then I would ride with that.

[DAG 34,555]

And the problem with not going live is Gus won't call how he normally would call in that situation. This is why I think they know who the starter is. I think it is JG.

[cole256 17,085]

Just now, DAG said:

So it is about his ability to run the ball correct? Why don't people just say that? LOL. I have already gone on record and saying I don't think that is a disadvantage because I believe Gus understands in a live situation JG would be able to make something happen if the pass option broke down. That is just my opinion. 

That is what I said but it's actually a little more than that and I said it too that's why I said it's more than simple it's running, it's different levels to this, some people can run and avoid a sack. Some people can run and get a first down short distances some others can run and throw downfield and make td's....but you should wonder why multiple players say he's a different animal when he's live.....also our defense needs to play and practice against a threat back there. Helps everybody

[cole256 17,085]

3 minutes ago, HarrisBoy334 said:

The QB ability to run is suppose to be 'extra' meat on the bone, not the bone. Would rather know he can make the throws then can effectively run if need be. If Bo can make ALL the throws at an elite level but runs just well enough to to have to be accounted for then I would ride with that.

Of course you would but since when did live mean you're not throwing the ball?

[DAG 34,555]

Just now, cole256 said:

That is what I said but it's actually a little more than that and I said it too that's why I said it's more than simple it's running, it's different levels to this, some people can run and avoid a sack. Some people can run and get a first down short distances some others can run and throw downfield and make td's....but you should wonder why multiple players say he's a different animal when he's live.....also our defense needs to play and practice against a threat back there. Helps everybody

I don't think it is made to be a mystery my guy. He is an athletic beast, which he can show when he is going live.  That is not the case if they aren't going live. He won't have the ability just to tuck it and run for 90 yards. As soon as he does, they will blow the whistle and force another play. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

13 minutes ago, DAG said:

Exactly. That is my biggest reason as to why Both Gus and Jeremy. Going live entering his Junior year in an offense he knows in his sleep to me was not the tipping point. The tipping point was now Jeremy Johnson was the primary QB and coaches can now game plan against that. When Arkansas played us in 2014, they were not prepared for a guy playing pitch and catch at FIRST. In the second quarter, things drastically changed. They adjusted and we start to lose momentum going into half.

Players have gone on record to say this, but why do you think that is the case? I have an inkling as to why, but  I still don't get why it wouldn't be an equal disadvantage to a true freshman who never has played a down of college football? His size is a difference maker? Okay? So what are you trying to say here?

If one of Joey's biggest strengths is his ability to escape, run the inverted veer, or make plays with his feet when things break down, then it's way harder to assess that vs general decision making when there's no chance of getting hit.

It's possible that Nix is a more polished passer.  It would make sense as he trained under his dad, a former college QB, and took more snaps during HS since Joey split reps.  In that case, it's easier for Nix to make his case as a starter vs Gatewood because you are limiting what is potentially Joey's biggest strength.

Go back to 2010.  In spring practice, it was widely said that Cam was behind in the passing game compared to Trotter.  But as we all know, what made Cam so special was his size and running abilities to go along with a cannon of an arm.  You just can't simulate that.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

6 minutes ago, HarrisBoy334 said:

The QB ability to run is suppose to be 'extra' meat on the bone, not the bone. Would rather know he can make the throws then can effectively run if need be. If Bo can make ALL the throws at an elite level but runs just well enough to to have to be accounted for then I would ride with that.

Really depends on the type of offense you're trying to run.  We literally had games in 2013 where we threw the ball 8 times because of Nick's running ability and the option game.

[HarrisBoy334 63]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

Of course you would but since when did live mean you're not throwing the ball?

Don't know where u got that point from? Going live involves everything but MY point is I would have more confidence in my mostly running QB if he could make all the right decisions and throws.... running wouldn't be what I focus on at practice

[cole256 17,085]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

I don't think it is made to be a mystery my guy. He is an athletic beast, which he can show when he is going live.  That is not the case if they aren't going live. He won't have the ability just to tuck it and run for 90 yards. As soon as he does, they will blow the whistle and force another play. 

I get that and I'm telling you EVERYTHING is different throwing as well when you know you're not going to get hit. 

[JMassie11 1,629]

Just a thought but maybe Gus knows what he can do with his feet and outside the pocket for both QBs but wants to make the decision based on reading the defense, protecting the ball and making the right throws. 

[cole256 17,085]

Just now, HarrisBoy334 said:

Don't know where u got that point from? Going live involves everything but MY point is I would have more confidence in my mostly running QB if he could make all the right decisions and throws.... running wouldn't be what I focus on at practice

Ok that's cool for you. My point is going live doesn't do hurt him throwing the ball in fact it just conditions him to get better as far as making reads under pressure in real time