Insight from Dan Rather

[AUFAN78 4,156]

12 hours ago, homersapien said:

Now you are lying.  What Rather said was:

"We have a President who lies without a second thought. Big bold lies that are easily disproven. That is not normal."

That's factual.

I pointed out other presidents lie. Nothing more. 

[AUFAN78 4,156]

8 hours ago, Grumps said:

Is there SOME substance in what he says...sure! I agree with him that Trump is not your normal POTUS. But look at what Rather said:

As with many of my fellow Americans, I don't consider myself partisan politically - never have. I am a registered independent voter and have been for most of my life. With that in mind, I submit the following:

Can we please get this out of the way? None of what is happening at the top of government now is normal. None of it. And no one should normalize it. No one. 

This is obviously an exaggeration.

We have a President who lies without a second thought. Big bold lies that are easily disproven. That is not normal.

As AU64 implied, which POTUS didn't lie frequently?

We have serious allegations around obstruction of justice by that President. That is not normal.

We had serious allegations that Obama wasn't born in the U.S., and that was garbage. Do you REALLY think that Trump obstructed justice during his talk with Comey? Rather said "allegations" because he knows that there is no evidence.

We have an FBI director fired for insisting to continue pursuing a serious investigation into the sanctify of our republic. It has never happened before in our history. That is not normal. 

We have testimony from Comey himself that he did his job poorly and that he was unethical. Those are two great reasons for him to be fired, don't you think? Do we have evidence that Comey was fired "for insisting to continue pursuing a serious investigation into the sanctity of our republic?" This seems like a flat out lie to me.

We have a hostile foreign power attacking and undermining our electoral process. That is not normal.

I don't see what this has to do with Trump. The U.S. meddles with elections in other countries to get the outcome we desire. It is not surprising that other countries would try to influence our elections. I don't think that Trump paid Russia to try to smear Mrs. Clinton's campaign. Is there evidence to the contrary?

We have an Attorney General under a serious shadow of association with said foreign power, with indications that there is much more to this story than we yet know. That is not normal.

Evidence please! "Association" is like "allegations". Let's see some evidence. Has anyone said yet what Trump hopes to gain by being so friendly with Putin?

We have Federal judges, our closest foreign allies, and the free press under scurrilous attack from the President and his enablers. At the same time we have despots praised. That is not normal.

"Scurrilous attack" that sounds really bad. Here is another gross exaggeration. I seem to remember some socialist leaders being praised in the last decade by a previous foreign leader.

We have an Administration fanning the flames of division over race, ethnicity, religion, sexuality, and gender. That is not normal.

This one may be the craziest yet. Fanning the flames how? Like lighting up the White House in rainbow colors? Please explain.

We have an overhaul of our entire health care system being written in secret on a rapid time frame. That is not normal.

Once again, HILARIOUS! Remember "We have to pass it so we can find out what's in it?

We have a sordid confluence of the President's business interests and his political power. That is not normal.

I completely agree with Rather on this one. Trump has more business interests than any other POTUS I can remember. This isn't normal. Of course, that is why he was elected. Do we have evidence that Trump is doing anything to help his business interests that is hurting the country?

My problem with Rather's rant is that I still want to consider him to be a journalist. You know, like, there are two sides to every story, and I should probably have some evidence to support my claims. Things like that. To use Rather's wording, for a journalist, his post was "not normal." It makes me sad that this icon of journalism is willing to portray himself the way I perceive him to be from his post. It is similar to Trump tweeting stupid comments all of the time--the behavior is acceptable from a common citizen, but it is pathetic to be coming from the POTUS.

Well done sir. 

[AUFAN78 4,156]

3 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

Again, on this issue he is spot on. Trumps behavior is incorrigible. It's time people stop normalizing it by saying his critics are biased.

No Elle, I disagree. We need more patriots willing to call out those trying to undermine our democratic process. 

[TexasTiger 14,297]

23 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Your partisan bias is noted. Prove me wrong. As I did with Dan.

You only proved your bias.

[AUFAN78 4,156]

5 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You only proved your bias.

I proved Dan's bias and yours if you agree with him. 

[DKW 86 7,906]

Rather is biased as hell. In 2004 he flushed his career, reputation, legacy, etc putting some laughably phony documents that even his and CBS News' own experts never verified. They verified the signature, never the documents. These docs werecarelessly typed out using Word. It was just plain silly almost pathetic how poorly forged the docs were demonstrated to be.   Rather is extremely biased and possibly mentally ill. He is trying to launch a new "Truth" news site. Who is going to believe a man notorious for faking a news story to throw an election?

As for Trump, I think if you really went back and look you will find that only 1-2 on the board didn't declare him to be a joke candidate, mine and Titan both used the word CLOWN. I would still describe him that way today. While Rather has points, who cares. There are 100s far more reliable folks to get the info from. Rather is desperately trying to resurrect a dead career by talking out his butt about something no one with a brain takes him serious in. Rather killed his career. No one else did that. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

9 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

No Elle, I disagree. We need more patriots willing to call out those trying to undermine our democratic process. 

I'm not sure if your joking or that uninformed. Russia has successfully breached our democratic process and all we've heard from Trump is praise for Putin. Meanwhile, POTUS has alienated our allies through his incompeteance and his obsession with Twitter. Trump hasn't even made appointments for positions in agencies that protect America, like the DEA and the ATF. But Because Trump played a bad ass on the campaign trail and used bigly words like "radical Islamic terrorism" and "Muslim ban" his flock of morons think he is a patriot. Meanwhile democracy is drowning.

[TitanTiger 21,242]

11 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Here is a good start. 

http://archive.mrc.org/projects/rather20th/welcome.asp

For the record, I could care less whether he is critical of a Republican or Democrat. Just be factual. 

I have a similar problem with this list that I had with the one bigbird posted.  It seems to me that it conflates a lot of accounts and issues unrelated to actual liberal bias in reporting to "pad the stats."  I don't have the time to go through the entire thing, but just getting about halfway down, I had this assessment:

Some things are simply factual errors, not bias:

30 Straight Years of NASA Cuts

Some things, he's doing his job in giving some insight on what's going on:

Gee, Thanks Dan (Rather is pointing out Cheney's use of "Clinton/Gore" to tie Al Gore to the scandals of Bill Clinton...which is exactly what Cheney *was* doing.  It's not wrong for a journalist commentating on a convention speech to talk rhetoric strategies being employed)

 

There's also the issue of taking comments he makes away from his official role as a journalist and conflating them with biased reporting, such as interviews on late night TV or radio programs.  I think such interviews should not be equated with bias in reporting:

Rather’s Rather Ridiculous Rant
Ashcroft Saved Himself & Let Others Fly in Harm’s Way
Bush's Anti-Uniter Cabinet
“Uncle Cheney” Really In Charge

 

And other things are just odd and aren't about being wrong on facts or biased.  Not sure why they're even listed except to provide filler and make the list look longer:

CBS’s “Dumb-Ass” Anchorman
I Can’t Figure This Out, So Go Buy a Paper (I'll also note this is stupid because Rather is correct - some stories just cannot be properly covered in a 30 minute daily newscast.  You need the in-depth reporting that only a good newspaper or magazine could provide.)

The examples of actual liberal bias slipping into reporting when it shouldn't consists of:

Gore a victim
Florida Secretary of State has no Legal Authority
Impeachment is a Coup D'Etat
Impechment too Distracting
Clinton Scandal vs VP Bush Scandal
Republicans Favor Sleazy Fundraising

 

Things that could be borderline, but I think he wasn't incorrect on:

George W. Bush didn't really win

Things I don't think are an issue:

Hillary Clinton fantastic (he's simply stating how successful she seems to be as a campaigner at that time)
Admiring the Kennedys 

 

I'm not even making the argument that I know Rather isn't biased.  I'm just critiquing the assumption that he is and some of the supposed lists that are offered as proof.
 

 

[AUFAN78 4,156]

9 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I have a similar problem with this list that I had with the one bigbird posted.  It seems to me that it conflates a lot of accounts and issues unrelated to actual liberal bias in reporting to "pad the stats."  I don't have the time to go through the entire thing, but just getting about halfway down, I had this assessment:

Some things are simply factual errors, not bias:

30 Straight Years of NASA Cuts

Some things, he's doing his job in giving some insight on what's going on:

Gee, Thanks Dan (Rather is pointing out Cheney's use of "Clinton/Gore" to tie Al Gore to the scandals of Bill Clinton...which is exactly what Cheney *was* doing.  It's not wrong for a journalist commentating on a convention speech to talk rhetoric strategies being employed)

 

There's also the issue of taking comments he makes away from his official role as a journalist and conflating them with biased reporting, such as interviews on late night TV or radio programs.  I think such interviews should not be equated with bias in reporting:

Rather’s Rather Ridiculous Rant
Ashcroft Saved Himself & Let Others Fly in Harm’s Way
Bush's Anti-Uniter Cabinet
“Uncle Cheney” Really In Charge

 

And other things are just odd and aren't about being wrong on facts or biased.  Not sure why they're even listed except to provide filler and make the list look longer:

CBS’s “Dumb-Ass” Anchorman
I Can’t Figure This Out, So Go Buy a Paper (I'll also note this is stupid because Rather is correct - some stories just cannot be properly covered in a 30 minute daily newscast.  You need the in-depth reporting that only a good newspaper or magazine could provide.)

The examples of actual liberal bias slipping into reporting when it shouldn't consists of:

Gore a victim
Florida Secretary of State has no Legal Authority
Impeachment is a Coup D'Etat
Impechment too Distracting
Clinton Scandal vs VP Bush Scandal
Republicans Favor Sleazy Fundraising

 

Things that could be borderline, but I think he wasn't incorrect on:

George W. Bush didn't really win

Things I don't think are an issue:

Hillary Clinton fantastic (he's simply stating how successful she seems to be as a campaigner at that time)
Admiring the Kennedys 

 

I'm not even making the argument that I know Rather isn't biased.  I'm just critiquing the assumption that he is and some of the supposed lists that are offered as proof.
 

 

I can't argue that summary. Well done.

[AUFAN78 4,156]

10 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

I'm not sure if your joking or that uninformed. Russia has successfully breached our democratic process and all we've heard from Trump is praise for Putin. Meanwhile, POTUS has alienated our allies through his incompeteance and his obsession with Twitter. Trump hasn't even made appointments for positions in agencies that protect America, like the DEA and the ATF. But Because Trump played a bad ass on the campaign trail and used bigly words like "radical Islamic terrorism" and "Muslim ban" his flock of morons think he is a patriot. Meanwhile democracy is drowning.

I am not talking bout Trump per se nor Russia. I am talking about all the whining from Democrats and the MSM after being handed an unprecedented defeat. They were wrong and simply can't handle it, so now they do everything in their power to undermine our democratic process known as an election. It's blatant, it's sad and frankly pathetic.  

[homersapien 12,237]

On 6/11/2017 at 11:00 PM, AUFAN78 said:

I pointed out other presidents lie. Nothing more. 

You miss-represented what Dan Rather said. Stop weaseling.

[AUFAN78 4,156]

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You miss-represented what Dan Rather said. Stop weaseling.

How so?

Let me help you. We have a President who lies without a second thought. Big bold lies that are easily disproven. That is not normal. ( Really? I couldn't keep my doctor nor my insurance. Ring a bell Dan?)

[homersapien 12,237]

22 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

How so?

Let me help you. We have a President who lies without a second thought. Big bold lies that are easily disproven. That is not normal. ( Really? I couldn't keep my doctor nor my insurance. Ring a bell Dan?)

Sounds to me you have a personal issue. I kept my doctor and got insurance I didn't have.

And that maybe wasn't even a lie. It could have been a simple mistake. After all, if it was such a crazy mess that it had to be passed to know what's in it, what makes you think Obama knew better?

And that tired example is starting to look ridiculously pathetic compared to the deluge of fantasy that issuing forth on an almost daily basis from the huckster-in-chief!

[AUFAN78 4,156]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Sounds to me you have a personal issue. I kept my doctor and got insurance I didn't have.

And that maybe wasn't even a lie. It could have been a simple mistake. After all, if it was such a crazy mess that it had to be passed to know what's in it, what makes you think Obama knew better?

And that tired example is starting to look ridiculously pathetic compared to the deluge of fantasy that issuing forth on an almost daily basis from the huckster-in-chief!

Stop deflecting with that goal post shift. How did I misrepresent what Dan said?

[homersapien 12,237]

23 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Stop deflecting with that goal post shift. How did I misrepresent what Dan said?

You equated Rather's statement with "presidents lie".  That's not the issue. No POTUS has made the sort of blatant and easily disprovable lies Trump spews on a regular basis.

Did Trump have more people at his inauguration than Obama?

Did Clinton get more than 3 million illegal votes?

Did hundreds of Muslims celebrate the fall of the twin towers?

Was Comey fired because of how he handled the Clinton investigation?

[homersapien 12,237]

I like the last one because Trump disproved it himself!   

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

14 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I am not talking bout Trump per se nor Russia. I am talking about all the whining from Democrats and the MSM after being handed an unprecedented defeat. They were wrong and simply can't handle it, so now they do everything in their power to undermine our democratic process known as an election. It's blatant, it's sad and frankly pathetic.  

And how exactly are Dems undermining the election? You sound you just stepped off the Breitbart flagship. 

[AUFAN78 4,156]

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

You equated Rather's statement with "presidents lie".

No POTUS has made the sort of blatant and easily disprovable lies Trump spews on a regular basis.

Did Trump have more people at his inauguration than Obama?

Did Clinton get more than 3 million illegal votes?

Did hundreds of Muslims celebrate the fall of the twin towers?

Was Comey fired because of how he handled the Clinton investigation?

Your first statement was correct and it directly called into question Dan's statements. You knew I was right, moved the goal post adding your own criteria and then stated I was the one lying. Your statement was BS and you know it, you just can't bring yourself to admit as much. I really didn't expect you to as you are as biased as Tex. No objectivity. Period.  Own it.

[AUFAN78 4,156]

9 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

And how exactly are Dems undermining the election? You sound you just stepped off the Breitbart flagship. 

Oh good grief. No offense Elle, but I feel like I am responding to a class at Romper Room. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

46 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Oh good grief. No offense Elle, but I feel like I am responding to a class at Romper Room. 

And I am completely blown away by how far removed your perception is from reality. 

[AUFAN78 4,156]

2 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

And I am completely blown away by how far removed your perception is from reality. 

Liberal only reality?

I will always believe there are two sides of the story Elle and the truth likely falls somewhere in between. It appears that is where we differ. So be it.

Enjoy your evening.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

3 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Liberal only reality?

I will always believe there are two sides of the story Elle and the truth likely falls somewhere in between. It appears that is where we differ. So be it.

Enjoy your evening.

Liberal bias

Liberal only reality

It seems liberal is your favorite adjective. Sometimes the truth does fall somewhere in between, but sometimes the truth hurts. And the truth is that Trump supporters hate liberals so much that they will excuse any transgression by Trump no matter how grievous. 

[AUFAN78 4,156]

Just now, GiveEmElle said:

Liberal bias

Liberal only reality

It seems liberal is your favorite adjective. Sometimes the truth does fall somewhere in between, but sometimes the truth hurts. And the truth is that Trump supporters hate liberals so much that they will excuse any transgression by Trump no matter how grievous. 

You discount that liberals, independents and conservatives elected Trump. Food for thought Elle. 

[homersapien 12,237]

3 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Your first statement was correct and it directly called into question Dan's statements. You knew I was right, moved the goal post adding your own criteria and then stated I was the one lying. Your statement was BS and you know it, you just can't bring yourself to admit as much. I really didn't expect you to as you are as biased as Tex. No objectivity. Period.  Own it.

Yeah right.   I am satisified with any thinking reader to make their own conclusion.

What is it with all this weaseling recently?  Are you being sucked into the vacuum that Raptor left?

[homersapien 12,237]

3 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Oh good grief. No offense Elle, but I feel like I am responding to a class at Romper Room. 

Great riposte!    

The question was how the Democrats "undermined the election"?

If you have no response, save the space for someone who has.