Mainstream Media’s Russian/Aide Story is Fake News by Their Own Definition

[Grumps 3,706]

13 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I do not believe Gen. Flynn's lie, is the lie in question.  I believe the big lie was,,,,the Trump campaign had no contact with the Russians.

Regardless of party, we should all want to know the realities of Russian involvement in our election.

Too many people are worried about the partisan implications.  Too few invested in the implications regarding our system, our government, our society.

I agree, we SHOULD all want to know the realities of Russian involvement in our election. My question is, why just Russia? What about all of the other countries? Unless you think that Russia planned to back Trump and get some favors after he got elected then what is the end game?

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Just now, Grumps said:

I agree, we SHOULD all want to know the realities of Russian involvement in our election. My question is, why just Russia? What about all of the other countries? Unless you think that Russia planned to back Trump and get some favors after he got elected then what is the end game?

That is precisely what we need, and should want, to know.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Watching the Trump press conference right now and he said this:

"The leaks are real.  The news is fake."

HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

[homersapien 12,215]

17 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

I think you know the answer to that,,,,he lied. So you can ignore all the lies Obama, Hillary. et al, told and can't even acknowledge Flynn's distinguished to his country?

Logical fallicy.  Whatever lies committed by Obama, Hillary, et al are immaterial to the issue on the table. 

[AUFAN78 4,148]

6 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Watching the Trump press conference right now and he said this:

"The leaks are real.  The news is fake."

HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

Trumpism?

[Grumps 3,706]

19 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

That is precisely what we need, and should want, to know.

But what is the logical end game? Do we think that Trump wants to rule the world with Putin? Seriously, I would love to see someone put in writing a logical explanation of the perceived connection between Trump and Russia. I just don't think that there is one.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

43 minutes ago, Grumps said:

But what is the logical end game? Do we think that Trump wants to rule the world with Putin? Seriously, I would love to see someone put in writing a logical explanation of the perceived connection between Trump and Russia. I just don't think that there is one.

I'm not sure it matters what any of us think.  If intel is correct and, the Russians attempted to influence our election (in favor of Trump) and, Trump people were in touch with the Russians during the election, we need to find out to what extent and, what was the "end game".

It's not personal or, partisan.  It is a matter of our sovereignty and security.  

[homersapien 12,215]

Evelyn Farkas was the Pentagon’s top Russia expert. Now she wants Trump independently investigated.

“The fundamental question is: Are you susceptible to blackmail from a foreign entity or individual?”

From 2012 to 2015, Evelyn Farkas served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine, and Eurasia. Since leaving office, she’s been raising the alarm that there was more to the strange relationship between Trumpland and Russia than the public knew. Maybe even much more. This week, she was proven right.

We spoke Wednesday, and the relief was evident in her voice. Far from being concerned over the new revelations, she’s comforted that the ties are finally being made public and broad pressure is finally being applied for more investigations. “I didn’t think it would happen this fast,” she says.

The investigation we need, Farkas continues, is the equivalent of running “a security clearance on the president.” The core question is, “Are you susceptible to blackmail from a foreign entity or individual?”

Farkas, who served as the executive director of the Commission on the Prevention of Weapons of Mass Destruction Proliferation and Terrorism, thinks Congress needs to create an independent, bipartisan commission to investigate Russia’s ties to the Trump administration and role in the election. In this interview, which is edited for length and clarity, she explains why.

Read the rest at: 

http://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/2/16/14630856/evelyn-farkas-trump-russia-flynn

[Grumps 3,706]

5 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

I'm not sure it matters what any of us think.  If intel is correct and, the Russians attempted to influence our election (in favor of Trump) and, Trump people were in touch with the Russians during the election, we need to find out to what extent and, what was the "end game".

It's not personal or, partisan.  It is a matter of our sovereignty and security.  

It definitely matters what we think. If we, as a country, think that our President is trying to sell us out to Russia when BY FAR the more likely explanation is that the media is exaggerating some relatively insignificant issues to make Trump look bad, then it matters greatly. I am all for investigating to be sure that nothing illegal is going on, but I don't see a problem in looking at the situation logically based on the information that we have.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 minutes ago, Grumps said:

It definitely matters what we think. If we, as a country, think that our President is trying to sell us out to Russia when BY FAR the more likely explanation is that the media is exaggerating some relatively insignificant issues to make Trump look bad, then it matters greatly. I am all for investigating to be sure that nothing illegal is going on, but I don't see a problem in looking at the situation logically based on the information that we have.

The media didn't create this story.  Our intelligence agencies are the ones who have flat-out said the Russians attempted to interfere with our election.  It's also the intelligence community letting it be known that Trump's team had contact with Russia during the campaign.  Whether it was benign or not, we don't know yet.  But it certainly warrants more investigation and is absolutely a leap on your part to say that the likely explanation is the media blowing this out of proportion.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

16 minutes ago, Grumps said:

It definitely matters what we think. If we, as a country, think that our President is trying to sell us out to Russia when BY FAR the more likely explanation is that the media is exaggerating some relatively insignificant issues to make Trump look bad, then it matters greatly. I am all for investigating to be sure that nothing illegal is going on, but I don't see a problem in looking at the situation logically based on the information that we have.

I thought that is what I have been saying???  Let's not pretend to know one way or the other for now, though.  That part of what we think doesn't matter.  It only serves to feed our own bias.

[Grumps 3,706]

17 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

I thought that is what I have been saying???  Let's not pretend to know one way or the other for now, though.  That part of what we think doesn't matter.  It only serves to feed our own bias.

Yes, that is what I understand you to have been saying. The only part I was trying to add is that is makes more sense that this is a media exaggeration than it is a conspiracy between Trump and Russia (whether I am biased or not). But you are correct that I don't know one way or another.

[Grumps 3,706]

17 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

The media didn't create this story.  Our intelligence agencies are the ones who have flat-out said the Russians attempted to interfere with our election.  It's also the intelligence community letting it be known that Trump's team had contact with Russia during the campaign.  Whether it was benign or not, we don't know yet.  But it certainly warrants more investigation and is absolutely a leap on your part to say that the likely explanation is the media blowing this out of proportion.

I don't see how Russia's attempt to make Mrs. Clinton look bad by hacking into the DNC server and then exposing some truths to the American public has anything to do with Trump. If the Trump campaign broke laws then I hope that those involved are punished. What seems like horrible exaggeration to me is some conspiracy between Trump and Russia that compromises the security of our country. Can you explain how our security has been threatened?

[homersapien 12,215]

13 minutes ago, Grumps said:

I don't see how Russia's attempt to make Mrs. Clinton look bad by hacking into the DNC server and then exposing some truths to the American public has anything to do with Trump. If the Trump campaign broke laws then I hope that those involved are punished. What seems like horrible exaggeration to me is some conspiracy between Trump and Russia that compromises the security of our country. Can you explain how our security has been threatened?

Seriously?

Russia may have tipped a close (electorally speaking) election toward Clinton's opponent and you don't see how that might theaten our security?

Do you consider fair elections as a component of our security?

[Grumps 3,706]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

Seriously?

Russia may have tipped a close (electorally speaking) election toward Clinton's opponent and you don't see how that might theaten our security?

Do you consider fair elections as a component of our security?

Seriously!

The media may have tried to tip a close (electorally speaking) election toward Trump's opponent and you don't see how that might threaten our security?

Do you consider fair elections as a component of our security?

[homersapien 12,215]

12 hours ago, Grumps said:

Seriously!

The media may have tried to tip a close (electorally speaking) election toward Trump's opponent and you don't see how that might threaten our security?

Do you consider fair elections as a component of our security?

Sounds like you believe the media is  the enemy of the people.  It that what you believe?

[Grumps 3,706]

14 hours ago, homersapien said:

Sounds like you believe the media is  the enemy of the people.  It that what you believe?

It sounds like you don't believe that the media selectively reporting things to help one candidate over another is a danger to our country. Is that what you believe?

[homersapien 12,215]

23 minutes ago, Grumps said:

It sounds like you don't believe that the media selectively reporting things to help one candidate over another is a danger to our country. Is that what you believe?

Well, for starters "the media" is not a monolithic entity that is capable of acting as a "unit", so the question is based on an irrational premise.

Secondly, fake news or bad reporting will extinguish itself due to competition with factual news and good reporting.  It doesn't have the power to represent an existential danger to the country.  The only danger to our country is the relatively large number of people who limit themselves to sources that simply mimic their pre-determined beliefs.

So, to answer your question in a general way, yes.

However, I think very large media companies - such as Fox - who maintain a deliberate bias are harmful to the country. But again, the real problem is with the number of people who accept that bias.

Now, how about answering my question:  Do you think the media is the "enemy of the people" as Trump tweeted?

[homersapien 12,215]

On 2/18/2017 at 1:52 PM, Grumps said:

Seriously!

The media may have tried to tip a close (electorally speaking) election toward Trump's opponent and you don't see how that might threaten our security?

Do you consider fair elections as a component of our security?

You talk as if that happened.  It didn't.

Whereas the Russians most definately involved themselves in our election.

 

[Grumps 3,706]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You talks as if that happened.  It didn't.

Whereas the Russians most definately involved themselves in our election.

 

They HACKED it, didn't they?

[Grumps 3,706]

24 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, for starters "the media" is not a monolithic entity that is capable of acting as a "unit", so the question is based on an irrational premise.

Secondly, fake news or bad reporting will extinguish itself due to competition with factual news and good reporting.  It doesn't have the power to represent an existential danger to the country.  The only danger to our country is the relatively large number of people who limit themselves to sources that simply mimic their pre-determined beliefs.

So, to answer your question in a general way, yes.

However, I think very large media companies - such as Fox - who maintain a deliberate bias are harmful to the country. But again, the real problem is with the number of people who accept that bias.

Now, how about answering my question:  Do you think the media is the "enemy of the people" as Trump tweeted?

I agree with your first sentence. You got me there. I stand corrected. "The media" is not a monolithic entity. So is there such a thing as "mainstream media." Overall, does the news media (NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, PBS) have a left or a right lean?

Regarding you last question: Yes, I think that the media in all forms who intentionally report knowingly false or misleading information are enemies of the people. I wish that news sources were not obviously biased, but that horse is already out of the barn, so to speak. But new can be biased without being intentionally inaccurate.

And just for the record, that is not what Trump tweeted.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 9:02 AM, Grumps said:

I don't see how Russia's attempt to make Mrs. Clinton look bad by hacking into the DNC server and then exposing some truths to the American public has anything to do with Trump. If the Trump campaign broke laws then I hope that those involved are punished. What seems like horrible exaggeration to me is some conspiracy between Trump and Russia that compromises the security of our country. Can you explain how our security has been threatened?

To your first point, it possibly could have something to do with Trump, which is why it needs to investigated more.  Circumstantially, it's fishy considering Russia hacked and helped to release info on Clinton and not Trump, all the while members of Trump's team were apparently in contact with Russian officials.  I'm not saying it happened that way, just that it needs more investigation.

As for the security of our country, it's about a foreign actor trying to influence the sovereignty of our elections (and doing so successfully I might add).  If Russia or any other hostile country is able to continuously influence our elections in a successful manner, then it becomes more likely that we become less safe as a country and that our role as a world leader will continue to diminish.

[homersapien 12,215]

22 hours ago, Grumps said:

And just for the record, that is not what Trump tweeted.

Close enough.

 

 

[Grumps 3,706]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 3:21 PM, homersapien said:

Close enough.

 

 

Close enough to intentionally distort the truth to spread your dislike for your president.

[homersapien 12,215]

2 hours ago, Grumps said:

Close enough to intentionally distort the truth to spread your dislike for your president.

If you want to make it an issue, compare my paraphrase with the exact quote and show me the gap.