One of Obama's Backfires

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

It didn't take long for one of Obama's pardons to prove to be a big mistake.

http://redstatewatcher.com/article.asp?id=61469

[TitanTiger 21,237]

So expound on this thoughtfully. What are you wishing to propose?  Are you proposing any or just taking potshots?  

[AUDub 11,833]

Hate that. Dude was given a new lease on life and wasted it. 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

5 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

So expound on this thoughtfully. What are you wishing to propose?  Are you proposing any or just taking potshots?  

I simply posted a fact for discussion. There is nothing smack about it. It suggests not being so liberal in opening the flood gate on pardons by a POTUS at the last minute,. Do you have an opinion other than singling me out for only POSSIBLY wanting to "stir the pot."

[TitanTiger 21,237]

I just wanted to know the point. You didn't offer one, so it prompted questions. Are you against presidential pardons in general?  Do you know the recividism rate among previous presidents as you single out Obama?  

Putting it out there for discussion is fine...but offer some direction as to what we're discussing by offering your take on it first.

[AUDub 11,833]

1 hour ago, Proud Tiger said:

I simply posted a fact for discussion. There is nothing smack about it. It suggests not being so liberal in opening the flood gate on pardons by a POTUS at the last minute,. Do you have an opinion other than singling me out for only POSSIBLY wanting to "stir the pot."

Well, if I'm not mistaken, this fellow was pardoned in 2015 according to your article. 

In any case, I have no problem granting clemency to nonviolent drug offenders. Life in prison for pretty much any crime other than rape or murder is ridiculous. We really need to eliminate mandatory minimums.

By the way, has anyone fact checked this? This guy's name isn't on the Justice.gov list for folks granted clemency by President Obama. 

[TitanTiger 21,237]

6 hours ago, Bigbens42 said:

Well, if I'm not mistaken, this fellow was pardoned in 2015 according to your article. 

In any case, I have no problem granting clemency to nonviolent drug offenders. Life in prison for pretty much any crime other than rape or murder is ridiculous. We really need to eliminate mandatory minimums.

By the way, has anyone fact checked this? This guy's name isn't on the Justice.gov list for folks granted clemency by President Obama. 

Yeah, it's legit.  From the San Antonio Express-News:

http://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/A-second-chance-from-Obama-then-another-10907050.php

[AUDub 11,833]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Yeah, it's legit.  From the San Antonio Express-News:

http://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/A-second-chance-from-Obama-then-another-10907050.php

Yeah, they're reporting his name incorrectly. Found him. 

[aubearcat 2,163]

8 hours ago, Bigbens42 said:

Well, if I'm not mistaken, this fellow was pardoned in 2015 according to your article. 

In any case, I have no problem granting clemency to nonviolent drug offenders. Life in prison for pretty much any crime other than rape or murder is ridiculous. We really need to eliminate mandatory minimums.

By the way, has anyone fact checked this? This guy's name isn't on the Justice.gov list for folks granted clemency by President Obama. 

I don't necessarily advocate life sentences for drug crimes, however, I do believe the term "non-violent" is often over used when referring to drug crimes. While the particular crime an offender may have committed to land them in prison may not in and of itself been violent, the drug trade is inherently violent. Also, many times, it isn't the specific crime that the offender was arrested on that got them a "life sentence", when in reality, life doesn't mean life (in prison until you die). but it was a totality of their criminal history that got them the sentence. Also, drugs play a role in probably about 95% of all crime. This is just my 2 cents.

[TexasTiger 14,275]

Any commutation has risks. Obama's were driven largely by addressing cases that wouldn't get the same sentences under current guidelines. My understanding was that they were largely nonviolent offenders. The no risk option is no mercy, even when sentences are arguably unjust.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

I think the intent of the thread is obvious and, I think it is obviously political and petty.

Unless the commutation was purchased, I do not see any real political significance.  I see the typical petty partisan nonsense that unfortunately defines discourse.

[aubearcat 2,163]

11 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I think the intent of the thread is obvious and, I think it is obviously political and petty.

Unless the commutation was purchased, I do not see any real political significance.  I see the typical petty partisan nonsense that unfortunately defines discourse.

It is partisan but it seems that's what America has become. The conversation tends be driven by "everything my party does is good or good intentions and everything your party does is bad and malicious." I believe there does need to be a thoughtful discussion about how to reform criminal justice practices at every aspect. Drug enforcement is obviously a hot button topic for criminal justice reform and I'd really like to hear ideas as I have a few to offer.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

1 minute ago, aubearcat said:

It is partisan but it seems that's what America has become. The conversation tends be driven by "everything my party does is good or good intentions and everything your party does is bad and malicious." I believe there does need to be a thoughtful discussion about how to reform criminal justice practices at every aspect. Drug enforcement is obviously a hot button topic for criminal justice reform and I'd really like to hear ideas as I have a few to offer.

IMHO, education is the answer.  It is an investment with a payoff.  Investing in education should lower the costs of assistance and incarceration.  

There is a caveat however, there has to be opportunity.   

[aubearcat 2,163]

There indeed has to be some type of hope to drive people who would be at risk of getting involved in the drug trade, toward a different direction. Even with an opportunity at a good life, some people for whatever reason still get involved with drugs, everything else be damned. One personal case that stands out to me is a young person who's family lives in a posh neighborhood in the Birmingham area, refuses to clean up despite the family kicking them out of their home and the person literally being homeless. This person is less than 25 years old and will pan handle to get enough money for heroin use that heroin, and begin the cycle again. It's mind boggling because you think to yourself, this person has every opportunity and every advantage a person could hope/dream of but is "trapped" in the drug world.  

[homersapien 12,226]

ACA Repeal Seen Thwarting State Addiction Efforts

In the midst of a raging opioid epidemic, states are urging Congress not to pull the plug on the Affordable Care Act, particularly Medicaid expansion. Without it, states say they would be unable to provide enough addiction treatment for the growing number of people who need it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/aca-repeal-seen-thwarting-state-addiction-efforts_us_58988ef3e4b02bbb1816bcbf?

 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

16 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I just wanted to know the point. You didn't offer one, so it prompted questions. Are you against presidential pardons in general?  Do you know the recividism rate among previous presidents as you single out Obama?  

Putting it out there for discussion is fine...but offer some direction as to what we're discussing by offering your take on it first.

Fair enough and I assume you will "enforce" that on every new thread started.

I am not against POTUS pardons but why do they wait until the last minute to do so many? The answer, I would guess, is because it's not generally popular and it is inconsistent for sure.

[TitanTiger 21,237]

Just now, Proud Tiger said:

Fair enough and I assume you will "enforce" that on every new thread started.

We're going to do our best.  But I'm sure if we miss a few you'll faithfully point them out to us.

 

Just now, Proud Tiger said:

I am not against POTUS pardons but why do they wait until the last minute to do so many? The answer, I would guess, is because it's not generally popular and it is inconsistent for sure.

It's just the custom to do it on the way out, probably so that they don't have to deal with any backlash as you say.  Letting guilty people out of jail or serving a shorter sentence is rarely going to be popular, not matter what the circumstances.  Hopefully each president does his or her best to research the facts of each case and the person's behavior since incarceration to make a wise decision.  But no president is infallible either.  Despite their best efforts, some are going to squander the second chance and commit crimes again.  I do still like the ability for presidents to do so and hopefully bring some more appropriate justice that better fits the crime.