Australia ??-- ally or no?

[TexasTiger 14,276]

This is interesting:

"It should have been one of the most congenial calls for the new commander in chief — a conversation with the leader of Australia, one of America’s staunchest allies, at the end of a triumphant week.

Instead, President Trump blasted Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull over a refu­gee agreement and boasted about the magnitude of his electoral college win, according to senior U.S. officials briefed on the Saturday exchange. Then, 25 minutes into what was expected to be an hour-long call, Trump abruptly ended it.

At one point, Trump informed Turnbull that he had spoken with four other world leaders that day — including Russian President Vladi­mir Putin — and that “this was the worst call by far.”"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/no-gday-mate-on-call-with-australian-pm-trump-badgers-and-brags/2017/02/01/88a3bfb0-e8bf-11e6-80c2-30e57e57e05d_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpaustralia-815pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.2a2b6b67166d

 

Australia has sent troops in support of our efforts in the Middle East and Vietnam, Korea and WWII before that-- one of our best allies. What's the end game? Meanwhile, the Russians receive no rebuke for the Ukraine?

[TexasTiger 14,276]

Just now, AURaptor said:

Australia has a far stricter immigrant policy than does the US, so to be lectured by them over the matter is ridiculous. 

Whether by friend or by foe, Trump isn't going to take it.  

He's not a politician, and that's why he was elected. 

 

 

How does that relate to what we know? Where is there evidence of a lecture?

[TexasTiger 14,276]

1 hour ago, AURaptor said:

it says right there in the opening paragraph, regarding the refugee agreement.  

Seems clear to me that PM Turnbull tossed out a few quips about the E.O... 

 

 These Guys are poncy idiots   - WIki page on The Liberal Party of Australia  

 

You said he "lectured" Trump about the matter-- do you have a source for that? The two countries do have a deal which involves the US taking refugees. Why would discussing a pre-existing deal be characterized as a lecture unless you have some other credible source?

[TexasTiger 14,276]

Looks like the deal will be honored:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jamesmassola/status/826984334062084098

Tillerson will be working around the clock.

[RunInRed 18,318]

 

[TexasTiger 14,276]

28 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

 

Kinda sounds like a confirmation of the story.

[AURaptor 1,137]

PM Turnbull denies Trump hung up on him

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/international/2017/02/02/turnbull-denies-trump--hang-up-.html

 

[homersapien 12,226]

1 hour ago, AURaptor said:

PM Turnbull denies Trump hung up on him

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/international/2017/02/02/turnbull-denies-trump--hang-up-.html

 

Hanging up would have been very bad, but the story is Trump using Twitter to conduct diplomacy. From your source:

An explosive tweet from Mr Trump has once again cast doubt on the deal, in which the US would take refugees currently held on Manus Island and Nauru in return for Australia accepting refugees from Central America.

'Do you believe it? The Obama Administration agreed to take thousands of illegal immigrants from Australia. Why? I will study this dumb deal!' the US president tweeted on Thursday.

Mr Turnbull said despite the president's tweet, he had received multiple assurances from Mr Trump, his press secretary and the US embassy the deal would be progressed.....

..... The US president reportedly told Mr Turnbull he was 'going to get killed' politically and accused Australia of seeking to export the 'next Boston bombers', according to senior US officials quoted by The Washington Post.  

[TexasTiger 14,276]

McCain sounding "Presidential" as he attempts to lessen the blow of Trump's call:

https://mobile.twitter.com/aterkel

[AURaptor 1,137]

If Australia won't accept immigrants because that country has stricter laws, why does the USA need to take them in? Obama made this agreement & Trump is duty bound to keep a bad deal? 

I think not. 

[TexasTiger 14,276]

46 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

If Australia won't accept immigrants because that country has stricter laws, why does the USA need to take them in? Obama made this agreement & Trump is duty bound to keep a bad deal? 

I think not. 

Perhaps. But in relationships with allies no one issue stands alone. Did Australia need to militarily support numerous USA efforts? Such relationships are built on give and take over decades and are complex.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

I think we are all assuming too much at this point.

[AURaptor 1,137]

3 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Perhaps. But in relationships with allies no one issue stands alone. Did Australia need to militarily support numerous USA efforts? Such relationships are built on give and take over decades and are complex.

Doubt very much Trump is going to put our relationship w/ Australia into jeopardy over this one issue. Most Australians are less than thrilled with an influx of Muslims into their country . That a Liberal PM made a deal w/  Obama for us to take 1000's of them off the Auzzie's hands, isn't a shocker.  That Trump isn't overly thrilled w/the " agreement " , should come as exactly zero surprise to anyone. 

[SaltyTiger 8,568]

At the end of the day we agreed to take them or do I need to be corrected? what's the big deal? trump gave his opinion on the agreement.

[TexasTiger 14,276]

18 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

At the end of the day we agreed to take them or do I need to be corrected? what's the big deal? trump gave his opinion on the agreement.

Big deal down under:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/wake-up-australia-the-us-alliance-has-never-been-our-security-guarantee-20170202-gu47hc.html

[SaltyTiger 8,568]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Big deal down under:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/wake-up-australia-the-us-alliance-has-never-been-our-security-guarantee-20170202-gu47hc.html

informative read, Did not know that tricky dick had them on the "s list". I have always thought Australia would be a great place to live.Leave it to Trump to get them in headlines.

never hear much about Australia unless there is a great white shark attack.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

3 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

At the end of the day we agreed to take them or do I need to be corrected? what's the big deal? trump gave his opinion on the agreement.

Don't know the answer to your question but from latest I have seen is that the earlier reports of the conversation were overblown and di not end in acrimony. IMHO Trump was again acting in the best interest of America, which he promised over and over to do.

[SaltyTiger 8,568]

11 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Don't know the answer to your question but from latest I have seen is that the earlier reports of the conversation were overblown and di not end in acrimony. IMHO Trump was again acting in the best interest of America, which he promised over and over to do.

Overblown is probably right. Lots of "chicken little the sky is falling". Military to Mexico this morning also.

[japantiger 4,116]

Here is what we know:

• Trump spoke to Turnbull
• The call ended after 25 minutes apparently
• Trump is pissed that his predecessor made a deal to take immigrants too dangerous for the Aussies to let into their country; these people are in off shore detention centers
• Trump privately and now publicly said this is a s*** deal ('worse deal ever") for the US; apparently has agreed to honor the deal...don't know what that means yet
• Turnbull said Trump did not hang up on him
• Press runs with fake news  and hysteria...how much detail in the initial article/reports are real is unknown...

From an editorial standpoint:

• Australia and US are still allies...
• Who in the hell makes an agreement to take refugees too dangerous for Australian immigration and agrees to let them into our country?

 

[SaltyTiger 8,568]

11 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Here is what we know:

• Trump spoke to Turnbull
• The call ended after 25 minutes apparently
• Trump is pissed that his predecessor made a deal to take immigrants too dangerous for the Aussies to let into their country; these people are in off shore detention centers
• Trump privately and now publicly said this is a s*** deal ('worse deal ever") for the US; apparently has agreed to honor the deal...don't know what that means yet
• Turnbull said Trump did not hang up on him
• Press runs with fake news  and hysteria...how much detail in the initial article/reports are real is unknown...

From an editorial standpoint:

• Australia and US are still allies...
• Who in the hell makes an agreement to take refugees too dangerous for Australian immigration and agrees to let them into our country?

 

> the refugees are coming here after-all. from what I understand. 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

8 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

> the refugees are coming here after-all. from what I understand. 

No problem as long as they are fully veted. Thankfully Trump will see to that.

[SaltyTiger 8,568]

8 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

No problem as long as they are fully veted. Thankfully Trump will see to that.

I guess the is the question is. can these refugees be truly vetted? different day since 9/11. i want to believe that all people are good.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

24 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I guess the is the question is. can these refugees be truly vetted? different day since 9/11. i want to believe that all people are good.

I wish I could believe that too but the fact is they aren't, not even in our own country. Walk downtown Chicago some night if you need proof.

[homersapien 12,226]

On 2/2/2017 at 0:28 PM, TexasTiger said:

Perhaps. But in relationships with allies no one issue stands alone. Did Australia need to militarily support numerous USA efforts? Such relationships are built on give and take over decades and are complex.

I have been wondering how Trump will act when, sometime in the future, we need to ask for help or a favor from one of these allies he has been dissing for no reason beyond political grandstanding. 

[homersapien 12,226]

On 2/2/2017 at 1:42 PM, icanthearyou said:

I think we are all assuming too much at this point.

Last night on PBS Newshour they reviewed a long-term professional diplomat about this.  He said it was not uncommon for leaders of state to speak candidly with each other in private phone calls.

His problem was with making the content of those calls public.  One should never embarrass an ally over relatively trivial things.

We might be assuming too much about what this means, but there's no assumption required about how stupid Trump's behavior has been regarding American interests, if not his own.