DeVos Confirmation

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Appears as if two Republican senators will vote no on DeVos, meaning that if all Democrats vote no, VP Pence would now be the tie-breaker.  However, I think that you may see her nomination falter as Senators like McCain and Graham have already shown displeasure at some of President Trump's other actions to this point.  Could be their way of showing POTUS that the Legislative branch still holds power and force him to work more closely with Republicans on the Hill moving forward.  Link below to the story.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/politics/collins-murkowski-to-vote-no-on-education-secretary-nominee/index.html

 

 

[AUDub 11,833]

I hope so. She has no business running the Department of Education.

[AuburnNTexas 7,315]

While I agree with much of what she wants to do with school choice who own answers during questioning may come back to haunt her. Trump may need to find somebody with similar views who is more prepared to defend those views and is open to how they portray school choice. The Michigan model had some serious flaws as there was no real government oversight. The Louisiana model has had more success because of some government oversight at the state level.

[autigeremt 7,204]

She's by far the worst choice he has made to run an agency.

[kd4au 1,145]

I think she will be confirmed.I like her stand on school choice,why shouldn't a kid be able to get out of a failing school?And I come from a family of teachers,but the teacher unions fighting school choice and protecting bad teachers is something I'm not in agreement with.

[AuburnNTexas 7,315]

2 hours ago, kd4au said:

I think she will be confirmed.I like her stand on school choice,why shouldn't a kid be able to get out of a failing school?And I come from a family of teachers,but the teacher unions fighting school choice and protecting bad teachers is something I'm not in agreement with.

I actually addressed this earlier she is from Michigan and she has been a great supporter of Charter schools in Michigan that initially sounds really good. However for whatever reason Michigan has no oversight on their Charter programs and when the kids in the Public school programs have opted to go to the Charter schools instead of the Public schools there has been no real improvement in graduation rates or scores on standardized tests. In Louisiana where they also have a strong Charter School program with government oversight the kids have done significantly better then the kids in Public schools. Despite these results she has never pushed for oversight in the Michigan schools. 

I would love to see somebody in Department of Education who is Pro-choice and Pro-Charter schools but I want a result driven person. Pick a few school systems that are really bad and test what works and what doesn't work. License Charter Schools and if a Charter school after a few years is not meeting certain educational results the License should be cancelled. We might even have to have different models for different areas such as rural, urban, suburban, low income areas versus more affluent areas. 

I believe her heart is in the right place but I don't think she is flexible enough to adjust programs when they don't get results.

I agree with you about looking at teacher Unions that are more worried about protecting bad teachers than about educating students but we have Public school systems in non-Union states that also have not produced results. So while I do have issues with Unions I don't attribute the whole issue to Union rules. We have all seen movies or read stories where the right teacher or the right principal have come into a public school in an under achieving area where either the teachers class got turned around or the school did. So the answer isn't just School Choice or Charter Schools or Public schools it is taking ideas that are working someplace and doing similar things in places where education is not working. That takes imaginative leadership at the federal Level, the state level and the local level. Most importantly at the local level.

[kd4au 1,145]

4 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I actually addressed this earlier she is from Michigan and she has been a great supporter of Charter schools in Michigan that initially sounds really good. However for whatever reason Michigan has no oversight on their Charter programs and when the kids in the Public school programs have opted to go to the Charter schools instead of the Public schools there has been no real improvement in graduation rates or scores on standardized tests. In Louisiana where they also have a strong Charter School program with government oversight the kids have done significantly better then the kids in Public schools. Despite these results she has never pushed for oversight in the Michigan schools. 

I would love to see somebody in Department of Education who is Pro-choice and Pro-Charter schools but I want a result driven person. Pick a few school systems that are really bad and test what works and what doesn't work. License Charter Schools and if a Charter school after a few years is not meeting certain educational results the License should be cancelled. We might even have to have different models for different areas such as rural, urban, suburban, low income areas versus more affluent areas. 

I believe her heart is in the right place but I don't think she is flexible enough to adjust programs when they don't get results.

I agree with you about looking at teacher Unions that are more worried about protecting bad teachers than about educating students but we have Public school systems in non-Union states that also have not produced results. So while I do have issues with Unions I don't attribute the whole issue to Union rules. We have all seen movies or read stories where the right teacher or the right principal have come into a public school in an under achieving area where either the teachers class got turned around or the school did. So the answer isn't just School Choice or Charter Schools or Public schools it is taking ideas that are working someplace and doing similar things in places where education is not working. That takes imaginative leadership at the federal Level, the state level and the local level. Most importantly at the local level.

She may be in the camp of let the sates run their education system not the feds,I don't know.I do know there is a lot talk about the education money going back to the states and letting them handle it instead of the federal gov., with which I agree.I was not really pushing charter schools as much as letting a student transfer to any school even another public school that may be better.I'm not smart enough to have all the answers but something needs to be changed.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

I really believe someone who holds this position should have some experience working in education. Oh and not plagiarize.

[AuburnNTexas 7,315]

1 hour ago, GiveEmElle said:

I really believe someone who holds this position should have some experience working in education. Oh and not plagiarize.

I agree. As I have said I am pro Charter School and Pro-Choice but it has to be done the right way by a person with experience and who is adjustable to making changes if something is not working. One of my biggest beefs with Public Schools isn't a knock on the teachers themselves but when something in an individual school system is not working they keep on doing it the exact same way. My beef is more with the administration then with the teachers.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

5 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I agree. As I have said I am pro Charter School and Pro-Choice but it has to be done the right way by a person with experience and who is adjustable to making changes if something is not working. One of my biggest beefs with Public Schools isn't a knock on the teachers themselves but when something in an individual school system is not working they keep on doing it the exact same way. My beef is more with the administration then with the teachers.

I understand what you are saying and to a certain degree will agree that there are some elements of public education that are broken. But to fix something that is broken one must understand why it's broken. How can someone who never worked in public education fix it?

[AuburnNTexas 7,315]

25 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

I understand what you are saying and to a certain degree will agree that there are some elements of public education that are broken. But to fix something that is broken one must understand why it's broken. How can someone who never worked in public education fix it?

I think you misunderstood me. I am not for her. I agree with you that you need some involvement in Education you also need people who can be more objective because they are not directly involved. Whoever gets the job needs to have people on all sides of the education debate involved as I don't believe either side is 100% right or 100% wrong. I am for somebody who is open to Charter Schools, School Choice, and improving Public Schools.  The mentality that I see in many Public schools is a protection mentality we won't change we won't improve but please protect us.

School choice by itself is not an answer, Charter schools by itself is not an answer, they could be part of the answer but what I am really looking for are people who will try things that work in one place if it works in your school keep it if not try something else.  The problem that many people don't see with education is that a model that works in a community where the parents are actively engaged in the education process may not work in a setting where for whatever reason the parents are not involved.  

We have to be flexible. The federal Government needs somebody who can help local systems to be flexible not set standards where we think one size fits all.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

49 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I think you misunderstood me. I am not for her. I agree with you that you need some involvement in Education you also need people who can be more objective because they are not directly involved. Whoever gets the job needs to have people on all sides of the education debate involved as I don't believe either side is 100% right or 100% wrong. I am for somebody who is open to Charter Schools, School Choice, and improving Public Schools.  The mentality that I see in many Public schools is a protection mentality we won't change we won't improve but please protect us.

School choice by itself is not an answer, Charter schools by itself is not an answer, they could be part of the answer but what I am really looking for are people who will try things that work in one place if it works in your school keep it if not try something else.  The problem that many people don't see with education is that a model that works in a community where the parents are actively engaged in the education process may not work in a setting where for whatever reason the parents are not involved.  

We have to be flexible. The federal Government needs somebody who can help local systems to be flexible not set standards where we think one size fits all.

I understood. I was just clarifying my opposition to Devos.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/02/03/kasich-backs-devos-without-mention-of_ap.html

[homersapien 12,226]

I hope she's approved.  I want the country to get as much of Trump as fast as possible.

[AuburnNTexas 7,315]

17 hours ago, homersapien said:

I hope she's approved.  I want the country to get as much of Trump as fast as possible.

I want what is best for the country. I don't think she is however I believe we actually need somebody in the Department of Education who is open to School Choice, Charter schools, etc. That person also has to be open to changes withing the existing Public school systems. As School Choice and Charter schools will not solve all the issues we have in education in this country they can be tools that used properly can help.

[japantiger 4,116]

I personally hope she oversees to the dismantling of Federal involvement in education.  During the tenure of Fed involvement in education, we've seen standards lowered, our rankings globally drop, an overemphasis on college as the next step after high school, college costs explode, the dismantling of the Technical/Trade school system that prepared people for real work and disasters like common core that teach, well, nothing as near as I can tell.   "No child left behind" has had no favorable impact; other than prior to it's implementation the fed only spent $30b of our hard earned tax $$ on education; 15 years later we spend $80b....it should be called "no teachers union left behind" or "no learning left behind".  Stop the spending and turn it back to the states.  Choice and Charter Schools can help but that can all be done without the Fed involved.

[maxwere 82]

29 minutes ago, japantiger said:

I personally hope she oversees to the dismantling of Federal involvement in education.  During the tenure of Fed involvement in education, we've seen standards lowered, our rankings globally drop, an overemphasis on college as the next step after high school, college costs explode, the dismantling of the Technical/Trade school system that prepared people for real work and disasters like common core that teach, well, nothing as near as I can tell.   "No child left behind" has had no favorable impact; other than prior to it's implementation the fed only spent $30b of our hard earned tax $$ on education; 15 years later we spend $80b....it should be called "no teachers union left behind" or "no learning left behind".  Stop the spending and turn it back to the states.  Choice and Charter Schools can help but that can all be done without the Fed involved.

[japantiger 4,116]

Glad she's confirmed.

[SaltyTiger 8,568]

15 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Glad she's confirmed.

Same here japtiger. Most Educators i hear are extremely frustrated.

[bigbird 60,939]

3 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Same here japtiger. Most Educators i hear are extremely frustrated.

Beyond frustrated.

[SaltyTiger 8,568]

13 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Beyond frustrated.

assuming you you are an Educator my hat is off to you bird. My wife spent several years in Speech Pathology. School systems on a practice level, administrative, consulting. you deal with all imaginable.

Always thought that I would have enjoyed coaching or teaching. After visiting schools during my child rearing years ---- no thanks -- get me back to work at my place.

[bigbird 60,939]

33 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

assuming you you are an Educator my hat is off to you bird. My wife spent several years in Speech Pathology. School systems on a practice level, administrative, consulting. you deal with all imaginable.

Always thought that I would have enjoyed coaching or teaching. After visiting schools during my child rearing years ---- no thanks -- get me back to work at my place.

There is too much PC in education. 

[icanthearyou 4,468]

11 hours ago, bigbird said:

There is too much PC in education. 

How do you define and quantify that assertion?

[homersapien 12,226]

On 2/2/2017 at 4:30 PM, AuburnNTexas said:

I actually addressed this earlier she is from Michigan and she has been a great supporter of Charter schools in Michigan that initially sounds really good. However for whatever reason Michigan has no oversight on their Charter programs and when the kids in the Public school programs have opted to go to the Charter schools instead of the Public schools there has been no real improvement in graduation rates or scores on standardized tests. In Louisiana where they also have a strong Charter School program with government oversight the kids have done significantly better then the kids in Public schools. Despite these results she has never pushed for oversight in the Michigan schools. 

I would love to see somebody in Department of Education who is Pro-choice and Pro-Charter schools but I want a result driven person. Pick a few school systems that are really bad and test what works and what doesn't work. License Charter Schools and if a Charter school after a few years is not meeting certain educational results the License should be cancelled. We might even have to have different models for different areas such as rural, urban, suburban, low income areas versus more affluent areas. 

I believe her heart is in the right place but I don't think she is flexible enough to adjust programs when they don't get results.

I agree with you about looking at teacher Unions that are more worried about protecting bad teachers than about educating students but we have Public school systems in non-Union states that also have not produced results. So while I do have issues with Unions I don't attribute the whole issue to Union rules. We have all seen movies or read stories where the right teacher or the right principal have come into a public school in an under achieving area where either the teachers class got turned around or the school did. So the answer isn't just School Choice or Charter Schools or Public schools it is taking ideas that are working someplace and doing similar things in places where education is not working. That takes imaginative leadership at the federal Level, the state level and the local level. Most importantly at the local level.

Well the main reason is DeVos fought such accountability measures:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/us/politics/betsy-devos-how-trumps-education-nominee-bent-detroit-to-her-will-on-charter-schools.html?_r=0

Few disagreed that schools in Detroit were a mess: a chaotic mix of charters and traditional public schools, the worst-performing in the nation.

So city leaders across the political spectrum agreed on a fix, with legislation to provide oversight and set standards on how to open schools and close bad ones.

But the bill died without even getting a final vote. And the person most influential in killing it is now President-elect Donald J. Trump’s nominee to oversee the nation’s public schools, Betsy DeVos.

Her resistance to the legislation last spring is a window into Ms. DeVos’s philosophy and what she might bring to the fierce and often partisan debate about public education across the country, and in particular, the roles of choice and charter schools.....

Ms. DeVos and her husband had lobbied hard for the state law that established charter schools in 1994. It allowed an unusually large number of organizations to start charter schools, which are publicly funded but privately run. But it created little oversight.

Even charter school supporters now criticize Detroit as one of the most unregulated markets in the country. About 80 percent of the state’s charters are operated for profit, far higher than anywhere else.......

But the provision that proved most controversial to the DeVoses would have established a Detroit Education Commission, appointed by the mayor. With three members from charter schools, three from the traditional public schools and one an expert in educational accountability, the commission was to come up with an A-to-F grading system for all schools, and evaluate which neighborhoods in the city most needed schools.

School operators that earned below an A or B could not expand without the commission’s signing off on their location. Schools that earned an F three years in a row could be closed.

Ms. DeVos and her husband wrote legislators urging them to reject any legislation that included the commission. Why, they argued, should residents have choice in where they shop for food and travel, but not in schools? She wrote a Detroit News op-ed arguing to “retire” Detroit Public Schools and “liberate all students” to use tax dollars to attend public or charter schools of their choice.

Leaders of 20 charter schools in Detroit, including some of the highest-performing, made a last-ditch effort to urge the Legislature to adopt the commission. “We have to be looking at every possible way to expand the choices and the opportunities in the neighborhoods for families,” Clark Durant, a onetime Republican candidate for the United States Senate and the co-founder of a network of schools, said at a news conference alongside Mayor Mike Duggan. “And I believe this is the beginning of that effort.”

The legislation passed the State Senate. But in the House of Representatives, support fell away, as leaders of the Republican caucus reminded the members of how much financial support the DeVoses could withhold.

They warned that the DeVoses would finance primary challenges against Republicans who defied her, as they had done to one who voted against the bill to lift the cap on charter schools five years earlier.

The DeVoses, said Representative Dave Pagel, a Republican who supported the commission, “made arguments that were strongly heard, and they prevailed.”

Another Republican, declining to comment for fear of alienating Ms. DeVos when she is poised to become a cabinet secretary, sent a link to an article detailing the DeVoses’ financial contributions to Republicans after the vote, saying it explained all there was to explain.

[homersapien 12,226]

You supporters of DeVos have no idea of what you are supporting.

But then, you support Trump also.