Secretiveness in the Program

[aubiefifty 17,488]

first time i remember auburn getting secretive is when the football team greased the train rails and jawja tech hadda walk a few miles in their own shoes............lol.

[passthebiscuits 6,889]

Gus is a paranoid guy. Whether we can blame him or not is up for debate. He is more paranoid now than ever, though he has always had a healthy dose of it. 

The AD still uses people for dissemination of info when it helps them. The beat writers know this too.

Injuries are off limits, but I do think that Gus and company could be forthright when they talk about a player's injuries when info is publicly released. I think it would actually improve the understanding of the average fan regarding the challenges that particular area of the sport entails.

As for coachspeak, if he is too frank the media kills him, when he's not, we kill him. I think we have to accept it as part of the Auburn Family and move on. Truth is, if we are winning, we don't seem to mind as much.

There are still lots of people here and elsewhere that have some really good things to say but often you have to lines read lines.

 

[AUApostle 7,663]

Sounds like  what we heard at the end of the Tuberville era  regarding paranoia. 

[oracle79 3,569]

4 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

Sounds like  what we heard at the end of the Tuberville era  regarding paranoia. 

If it's actually happening, it's not really paranoia is it?

[FoundationEagle 637]

On 1/25/2017 at 5:05 PM, lionheartkc said:

This is Gus.  He's got a great football mind, and is a defensive coordinators nightmare when he has time to really plan an offense

No doubt. Just ask Clemson and Oklahoma 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 hours ago, FoundationEagle said:

No doubt. Just ask Clemson and Oklahoma 

You missed the part about "when he has time".  When Gus was an OC, he literally put in 18 hour days JUST being an OC. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

You missed the part about "when he has time".  When Gus was an OC, he literally put in 18 hour days JUST being an OC. 

an entire off season and a month were not enough time?  Gus has never stopped game planning and to say that he can't do it well because he was the head coach would make 2013 really hard to explain with your logic(I don't think he game planned well).  Stop making excuses, offensive minded head coaches all across the country run their offenses.  Gus has never been a great game planner, he just runs his offense.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

an entire off season and a month were not enough time?  Gus has never stopped game planning and to say that he can't do it well because he was the head coach would make 2013 really hard to explain with your logic(I don't think he game planned well).  Stop making excuses, offensive minded head coaches all across the country run their offenses.  Gus has never been a great game planner, he just runs his offense.

You're starting to wade into the world of the doom and gloomers, phan, jumping on every positive thing said about Gus... unless you just do that with me.

Answer me this... if Gus us such an awful game planner, than why in 2013 were people saying that his offense was so hard to defend that it was borderline cheating? Was our converted DB at QB just so great that Gus didn't need to plan? If he has never been a great game planner, then why has he been at the helm of some of the most prolific offenses of the past decade? Is he just able to run his offense with no plan and be that successful?

As for explaining 2013, when Gus came back as head coach, he was still spending a ton of time as OC.  As he grew into the head coach role, more and more things began taking up his time, outside of running the offense, and he had to spend less and less time running it and count on Rhett to pick up the slack, while at the same time handcuffing him by micromanaging.

[auburnphan 6,050]

Just now, lionheartkc said:

You're starting to wade into the world of the doom and gloomers, phan, jumping on every positive thing said about Gus... unless you just do that with me.

Answer me this... if Gus us such an awful game planner, than why in 2013 were people saying that his offense was so hard to defend that it was borderline cheating? Was our converted DB at QB just so great that Gus didn't need to plan? If he has never been a great game planner, then why has he been at the helm of some of the most prolific offenses of the past decade? Is he just able to run his offense with no plan and be that successful?

As for explaining 2013, when Gus came back as head coach, he was still spending a ton of time as OC.  As he grew into the head coach role, more and more things began taking up his time, outside of running the offense, and he had to spend less and less time running it and count on Rhett to pick up the slack, while at the same time handcuffing him by micromanaging.

DId you watch the 2013 season, Marshall was a playmaker, he excelled at getting something out of broken plays.  His offense was confusing when it was first introduced but as teams got film on it and his tendencies were proven we all saw what happens.  His offense has a solid system, but has never really evolved.  I think Gus has the potential to run a great program and be a great head coach as I have said many times before.  However, I see flaws, like many and won't make excuses for him.  Rhett was not involved in game planning at any stage of his career.  Last season Gus worked with Hand on game planning and during the winning streak he mentioned this on more than one occasion. 

[Strychnine 1,804]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

You're starting to wade into the world of the doom and gloomers, phan, jumping on every positive thing said about Gus... unless you just do that with me.

Answer me this... if Gus us such an awful game planner, than why in 2013 were people saying that his offense was so hard to defend that it was borderline cheating? Was our converted DB at QB just so great that Gus didn't need to plan? If he has never been a great game planner, then why has he been at the helm of some of the most prolific offenses of the past decade? Is he just able to run his offense with no plan and be that successful?

As for explaining 2013, when Gus came back as head coach, he was still spending a ton of time as OC.  As he grew into the head coach role, more and more things began taking up his time, outside of running the offense, and he had to spend less and less time running it and count on Rhett to pick up the slack, while at the same time handcuffing him by micromanaging.

 

I agree with phan.  I do not think Gus does much in the way of planning for each opponent, beyond perhaps varying his script of plays based on film study, and it makes perfect sense.  His offense is simple, and designed to be operated fast.  If anything, 2013 proved this, as every game featured the same basic plan.  Once he finds what works reasonably well with a particular set of players, he tends to stick to it.  There is really not much room for weekly variation in his offense.  That is perfectly fine when you are running that offense at the tempo it was designed to run at.

What made the offense so difficult to stop in 2013 was not the genius of Gus' plans or playcalling, it was the level of execution all over the field, tempo, and a combination of stellar playmakers.  That particular offense was the best I recall ever seeing at misdirection.  I give Gus full credit for putting that together and refining it into the art that was displayed in the Georgia Dome.  However, they did the same thing to Mizzou that was done to Alabama the week before, and to Georgia two weeks before that, etc.  It was hard to defend because a DC cannot scheme out the impact of players that are confused and tired by misdirection and tempo.

The main thing I have noticed from Gus' time at Auburn is that his offense is generally more effective when it is run fast.  When it is run slower, it is more likely to sputter and stall.  That has been true regardless of players.

[AUApostle 7,663]

24 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

  Last season Gus worked with Hand on game planning and during the winning streak he mentioned this on more than one occasion. 

During the TV broadcasts during the winning streak, Lashlee got almost all the credit (like it was too obvious AU was trying to get him hired away).

[DAG 34,126]

1 hour ago, Strychnine said:

 

I agree with phan.  I do not think Gus does much in the way of planning for each opponent, beyond perhaps varying his script of plays based on film study, and it makes perfect sense.  His offense is simple, and designed to be operated fast.  If anything, 2013 proved this, as every game featured the same basic plan.  Once he finds what works reasonably well with a particular set of players, he tends to stick to it.  There is really not much room for weekly variation in his offense.  That is perfectly fine when you are running that offense at the tempo it was designed to run at.

What made the offense so difficult to stop in 2013 was not the genius of Gus' plans or playcalling, it was the level of execution all over the field, tempo, and a combination of stellar playmakers.  That particular offense was the best I recall ever seeing at misdirection.  I give Gus full credit for putting that together and refining it into the art that was displayed in the Georgia Dome.  However, they did the same thing to Mizzou that was done to Alabama the week before, and to Georgia two weeks before that, etc.  It was hard to defend because a DC cannot scheme out the impact of players that are confused and tired by misdirection and tempo.

The main thing I have noticed from Gus' time at Auburn is that his offense is generally more effective when it is run fast.  When it is run slower, it is more likely to sputter and stall.  That has been true regardless of players.

I agree. In 2013, we ran the same freaking sets which was fine. Gus was genius enough to figure out his talent and work with it. It could not be stopped. A great offensive line, a heisman candidate rb and a magician at QB.  Fair enough. To me the true essence of a great game planner is adaptability to personnel,  evolving implementation and consistent  results even in the face of adversity. The offense never really evolved after  2013 and you could even see Gus go into desperation mode, seeking out another NM clone in hopes of repeating that success. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

33 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

What made the offense so difficult to stop in 2013 was not the genius of Gus' plans or playcalling, it was the level of execution all over the field, tempo, and a combination of stellar playmakers.  That particular offense was the best I recall ever seeing at misdirection.  I give Gus full credit for putting that together and refining it into the art that was displayed in the Georgia Dome.  However, they did the same thing to Mizzou that was done to Alabama the week before, and to Georgia two weeks before that, etc.  It was hard to defend because a DC cannot scheme out the impact of players that are confused and tired by misdirection and tempo.

This is where I disagree.  Yes, obviously, the quality of play was a huge factor, but what made it nearly impossible to defend was what you brought up in your second sentence... the misdirection. Gus developed ways to make a pass look like a run and a run look like a pass in ways no one had encountered, often by using his line, and even when you knew he was going to run it, you never new who was going to run it or what direction they were going to go. 

I would also argue that he did know the tendencies of different players on the opposing teams, which allows for picking on certain players with the zone read. It's been well documented that Gus would spend hours reviewing film and trying to find a wrinkle to exploit.

As for the game plans...  Georgia's was drastically different than Missouri's... and Alabama was something in between.  Against Georgia, we threw the ball 27 times... Missouri... 11. Against Georgia we passed on first down just under 50% of the time.  Against Missouri we passed on first down barley over 10% of the time.  Then go to the National Championship where we passed on first down over 70% of the time.

I get it... Gus's offense has gone stale and he's become predictable, but I think a lot of people have a tendency to project the last couple of years onto his whole career.

[DAG 34,126]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

This is where I disagree.  Yes, obviously, the quality of play was a huge factor, but what made it nearly impossible to defend was what you brought up in your second sentence... the misdirection. Gus developed ways to make a pass look like a run and a run look like a pass in ways no one had encountered, often by using his line, and even when you knew he was going to run it, you never new who was going to run it or what direction they were going to go. 

I would also argue that he did know the tendencies of different players on the opposing teams, which allows for picking on certain players with the zone read. It's been well documented that Gus would spend hours reviewing film and trying to find a wrinkle to exploit.

As for the game plans...  Georgia's was drastically different than Missouri's... and Alabama was something in between.  Against Georgia, we threw the ball 27 times... Missouri... 11. Against Georgia we passed on first down just under 50% of the time.  Against Missouri we passed on first down barley over 10% of the time.  Then go to the National Championship where we passed on first down over 70% of the time.

I get it... Gus's offense has gone stale and he's become predictable, but I think a lot of people have a tendency to project the last couple of years onto his whole career.

I definitely project the last two years into his career as a HC in a power 5 conference. CGM the OC is a great mind. CGM the HC is very shaky. Huge red flag to see he give up reigns on what he is an expert in from the POV of a HC. 

[Strychnine 1,804]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

This is where I disagree.  Yes, obviously, the quality of play was a huge factor, but what made it nearly impossible to defend was what you brought up in your second sentence... the misdirection. Gus developed ways to make a pass look like a run and a run look like a pass in ways no one had encountered, often by using his line, and even when you knew he was going to run it, you never new who was going to run it or what direction they were going to go. 

I would also argue that he did know the tendencies of different players on the opposing teams, which allows for picking on certain players with the zone read. It's been well documented that Gus would spend hours reviewing film and trying to find a wrinkle to exploit.

As for the game plans...  Georgia's was drastically different than Missouri's... and Alabama was something in between.  Against Georgia, we threw the ball 27 times... Missouri... 11. Against Georgia we passed on first down just under 50% of the time.  Against Missouri we passed on first down barley over 10% of the time.  Then go to the National Championship where we passed on first down over 70% of the time.

I get it... Gus's offense has gone stale and he's become predictable, but I think a lot of people have a tendency to project the last couple of years onto his whole career.

 

I am not projecting the last few years on his career.  My fundamental point is that I do not really think his offense itself is the problem, just the way he has been running it (and the fact that he spent two seasons operating it with basically one QB on the roster).  Gus has an offensive philosophy built around the concept of playing Checkers very fast, not a slower game of Chess.  When it is slowed down, the defense has more time to see what you are doing, and apply the things their coaches spent the last week showing to them.  It exposes the simplicity that is fundamental to it being operated fast with minimal mistakes.  The misdirection is less (in)effective because defenders have more time to see through it.

It was not Gus' skill at Chess that got him here, it was that he was good at building offenses that were devastating at playing Checkers fast.  Aside from listening to his new OC's input, he needs to get back to being the guy that wrote the book you can buy on Amazon.  Call plays, run them fast, stop substituting, and stop wasting time pre-snap playing peek-a-boo with the defense.

[oracle79 3,569]

26 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

Aside from listening to his new OC's input, he needs to get back to being the guy that wrote the book you can buy on Amazon.  Call plays, run them fast, stop substituting, and stop wasting time pre-snap playing peek-a-boo with the defense.

Pretty much sums it up.  It's not really that hard now is it?

If they can incorporate an adequate passing scheme that can attack all areas of the field, and scheme to go after the weak points of a defense, and make in game and half-time adjustments, this will be a fun year coming up.

[AURex 2,114]

At the risk of repeating myself, Auburn had great offensive talent in 2013 and they executed. But defensive coordinators are not stupid. In 2013, they had not encountered the Auburn offense before and had not figured out how to defend it. By now, all DCs know exactly what Malzahn's offense does. They may not have the talent to stop it, but they all know what needs to be done.

As t the original topic, Malzahn and the whole bunch of Auburn staff and players were yakking it up about how JJ was so spectacular, he'd win the Heisman and Auburn would be unstoppable.  The total flop of that hype crusade was really embarrassing to Malzahn and the rest of the Auburn athletic department, from players to administrators.

At that point, I think Malzahn rightly decided to just let game performance do the talking and keep his mouth shut about most stuff. It doesn't bother me. I don't even watch the pressers (though I do read the summaries and conversations here on AUF).

 

[Strychnine 1,804]

41 minutes ago, AURex said:

I don't even watch the pressers (though I do read the summaries and conversations here on AUF).

 

 

I do the same.  Every time I see him at the press podium, I always feel like it is only a matter of time before he starts blinking out SOS in Morse.  It is like watching someone being tortured.  I suspect he would much prefer it if all he had to do with the media is issue press releases.

[autigeremt 6,832]

On January 25, 2017 at 3:45 PM, lionheartkc said:

First, Gus doesn't trust the media, and rightly so.  Think about it... his second year in Auburn he had to deal with the Cam BS. After that, the media will be hard pressed to get back in his good graces.

Second, for the past two years, a lot of what has been going on behind the scenes involves injuries, which he is not allowed to address, by law.

Don't forget that the REC backed media went after Kristi. 

[AUIH1 1,515]

Kristi  allowed her personality to show through during the interview when Gus was the OC at AU.   I give her a lot of credit for not being in the public eye since Gus has been the HC at AU.

wde 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 1/27/2017 at 10:11 PM, autigeremt said:

Don't forget that the REC backed media went after Kristi. 

Valid point as well.

[keesler 5,934]

On 1/27/2017 at 11:49 AM, DAG said:

I definitely project the last two years into his career as a HC in a power 5 conference. CGM the OC is a great mind. CGM the HC is very shaky. Huge red flag to see he give up reigns on what he is an expert in from the POV of a HC. 

The huge red flag flew up the flag pole for me when he publicly said at the end of the 2014 season he was "getting back to his roots" and he was going to become more deeply involved with the offense.  He said at his core he was a football coach, not a CEO so "he" would be getting back to what he does best.  He would get intimately involved with the offense in every aspect in 2015.

THEN, he later flip flops and says he was going to step away and let his coaches do their job and he was going to be hands off and be the CEO HC.  We all saw the Clemson offensive debacle, and apparently he took over the play calling and game planning mid-season in 2016.

THEN he hires his new OC for 2017 and says he's going to give up the reigns of what is at his very core which is offense..??..??

[keesler 5,934]

On 1/27/2017 at 10:25 PM, AUIH1 said:

Kristi  allowed her personality to show through during the interview when Gus was the OC at AU.   I give her a lot of credit for not being in the public eye since Gus has been the HC at AU.

wde 

I do as well, she is an asset to Auburn and Gus in the area of hospitality which greatly benefits recruiting.  

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

36 minutes ago, keesler said:

The huge red flag flew the flag pole for me when he publicly said at the end of the 2014 season he was "getting back to his roots" and he was going to become more deeply involved with the offense.  He said at his core he was a football coach, not a CEO so "he" would be getting back to what he does best.  He would get intimately involved with the offense in every aspect in 2015.

THEN, he later flip flops and says he was going to step away and let his coaches do their job and he was going to be hands off and be the CEO HC.  We all saw the Clemson offensive debacle, and apparently he took over the play calling and game planning mid-season in 2016.

THEN he hires his new OC for 2017 and says he's going to give up the reigns of what is at his very core which is offense..??..??

Drifting OT, and

my old-man experiences are likely not terribly relevant here, but

“roots” do provide for nourishment and strengthening and, quite frankly, some comfort that favorable conditions can be ongoing..

Over-reliance, however, can make one “pot-bound.”

My needed decisions to uproot, and grow some “legs,” to explore and adapt to new opportunities, have never been comfortable, easy ones.

[lutzcammed 469]

I really don't pay any attention to what he says in coach speak.   We have all heard it enough that we can probably  write his speech for him.

All I really care about at this point is that he hits the trash can on the first attempt when he throws his clip board away