strength and conditioning

[I_M4_AU 8,285]

3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I haven't had time to dig deep with her... she's been working a lot and has been tired once she got home. I'm hoping to pick her brain more this weekend.

I'm not sure she will know about current protocols... it's been years since she served on a football staff. What she does know is how to properly prepare a body for various activities.

Thanks, let us know.

[bg5 536]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

The reason I'm questioning him is that my wife is trained in sports medicine and exercise science and she is questioning him.

Unless she is the team doc she would have no way to know the condition of our players. I work with docs all day long and one thing most of them don't do is question others docs work without seeing that patient for themselves.

[bg5 536]

1 hour ago, MadtownTiger said:

I'm curious...

Let's say they hand you the keys to the kingdom.  You've got three years to get us to the national championship game.

What needs to happen?

WDE!

Unlike many on here I still think Gus can turn this around. Our Def. has been really good this year and we have a good staff there. What Gus has to do if he wants to stay at Auburn is get someone who can develop QB's. Whether that's the OC or QB coach it doesn't matter. I don't blame Gus for the depth at RB this year because the first RB had to go for the good of the team. The next one left because he wanted playing time. Pettway was great until he hurt his leg. KJ was good until he got hurt. We are running these guys to death because  we don't have a passing game. White has had a good year with the short passes but isn't very good deep because of his technique.  

[lionheartkc 6,150]

6 minutes ago, bg5 said:

Unlike many on here I still think Gus can turn this around. Our Def. has been really good this year and we have a good staff there. What Gus has to do if he wants to stay at Auburn is get someone who can develop QB's. Whether that's the OC or QB coach it doesn't matter. I don't blame Gus for the depth at RB this year because the first RB had to go for the good of the team. The next one left because he wanted playing time. Pettway was great until he hurt his leg. KJ was good until he got hurt. We are running these guys to death because  we don't have a passing game. White has had a good year with the short passes but isn't very good deep because of his technique.  

I completely agree with everything you said but the highlighted.  We're running these guys to death because that's how Gus likes to play the game and it's working. I honestly think no one considered that we might actually overwork any of them.

[I_M4_AU 8,285]

2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I completely agree with everything you said but the highlighted.  We're running these guys to death because that's how Gus likes to play the game and it's working. I honestly think no one considered that we might actually overwork any of them.

This is exactly it, we have a passing game, but Gus is stuck in 2013.  In 2013 Tre Mason was a phemon, ran, ran and ran some more without slowing down or getting hurt.  Not everybody can do what Tre did that year.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is exactly it, we have a passing game, but Gus is stuck in 2013.  In 2013 Tre Mason was a phemon, ran, ran and ran some more without slowing down or getting hurt.  Not everybody can do what Tre did that year.

Honestly, I can't blame Gus either.  When you can keep it on the ground and no one can stop you, it's the best of all worlds.  You're eating clock, not taking as many risks for turnovers, and totally wearing out your opponents defense, while resting yours. You just can't do it with the same back, all of the time.

[I_M4_AU 8,285]

16 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Honestly, I can't blame Gus either.  When you can keep it on the ground and no one can stop you, it's the best of all worlds.  You're eating clock, not taking as many risks for turnovers, and totally wearing out your opponents defense, while resting yours. You just can't do it with the same back, all of the time.

That why the comment about Tre Mason.  After the LSU game in 2013, Tre was the featured back that year.  He very seldom was relieved by Artis-Cameron.  Gus rides one horse most of the time, weather it is a RB or QB (in blow outs), it's his one guy.  Saban uses one back to soften up the defense in the first half and then sticks in his bruiser in the 2nd half when the opposing defense is tired and rams it down there throats (see the 2011 Iron Bowl).

If we had used KJ and KP in the same manner, both might still be playing unhurt.

In your original quoted post you said:   "We're running these guys to death because that's how Gus likes to play the game and it's working".  So who do you blame?  Sounds kind of contradictory.

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

18 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

That why the comment about Tre Mason.  After the LSU game in 2013, Tre was the featured back that year.  He very seldom was relieved by Artis-Cameron.  Gus rides one horse most of the time, weather it is a RB or QB (in blow outs), it's his one guy.  Saban uses one back to soften up the defense in the first half and then sticks in his bruiser in the 2nd half when the opposing defense is tired and rams it down there throats (see the 2011 Iron Bowl).

If we had used KJ and KP in the same manner, both might still be playing unhurt.

In your original quoted post you said:   "We're running these guys to death because that's how Gus likes to play the game and it's working".  So who do you blame?  Sounds kind of contradictory.

I don't know that I'm looking for someone to blame, but I don't deny that we overworked our back. A lot of the blame actually falls on the demand to win in the SEC. If Johnson hadn't have gotten hurt and we hadn't have lost Miller, we probably wouldn't have lost Pettway. However, since one was limited, and one was hurt, Gus did what he thought he had to in order to, honestly, keep his job. I honestly don't think he knows how to coach a pass-first offense, so he did what he knows and Pettway paid for it in the end. 

Now... your statement about Johnson and Pettway both being uninjured is a bit of a stretch, since Kerryon had a standard ankle injury that happened mid-season and didn't have anything to do with being overworked. In fact, we were rotating them pretty well until that. The most attempts Kerryon had in a game was 24, which is pretty standard for a feature back. Pettway, on the other hand had 30 in one game and 39 in another. That's absurd.

[Tigercj 242]

4 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

No plan B what season have you been watching.  We lose Jovon Robinson, and Roc Thomas before the season and we still have the leading Rusher in the SEC and KJ has had a very good year.  According to all the experts we have no LB depth but when players are hurt or not playing because of targeting we have had other guys step up.

In the running game Gus had a plan B a plan C and a plan D. 

The one place he has not had a plan B is QB and that is not totally true as going into Spring he thought Queen was healthy as a backup. After Queen got hurt it was to late to bring in another QB. We always new that Woody would need a Redshirt year and we were hoping JF3 would help us.

Now I am going to make a prediction that JJ is going to play well in next two games yes he will play well against bama. He has nothing to lose and no pressure on him so he will just play and do well.

So where is the plan B for QB. I was never talking about the running backs only  the QB position and if you think Queen was his plan B that has never been discussed since he has been hurt his entire time here. 

[TAYLORKEETON 811]

Give me about 5 more years guys & I'll boost up our S&C. Lol. That's what I'm in school for. 

[FASTCOMPANY 394]

Wasn't Russell an assistant to Kevin Yoxell some years back?

[AuburnNTexas 7,236]

11 minutes ago, Tigercj said:

So where is the plan B for QB. I was never talking about the running backs only  the QB position and if you think Queen was his plan B that has never been discussed since he has been hurt his entire time here. 

When Spring started last year Queen's rehab was going well they were increasing the number of throws and there was every expectation that he would be fine. Tommy John surgery has really been refined. Because of his progress they had every expectation that he would be ready by fall. During Spring he had the second injury at that point we had already signed our class and there no top notch HS QB's available.  We also had Woody, JJ, and JF3. 

When you have a run heavy offense top QB's don't line up to sign with you however if you have a strong d and a solid running game you can win. That is what bama has done for years. Even when they sign elite QB's most don't end up being elite.  Coaches have an 85 Scholarship limit to be able to have sufficient backups at all the other positions we can't have unlimited numbers of QB's. 

QB is a tough position to know until you see them in College Lamar Jackson was #17 DT when Louisville picked him up Woody was #18 DT in his class.  So Lamar looks like one of the better College QB's now but when he came out he and Woody though a year apart were rated about the same. If SW gets hurt at the beginning of the year they might have tried to bring Woody on but at this point we are better waiting till next year.

To many sofa coaches seem to think they know more about football then professional coaches. Is Gus the best coach in the Country nope has he gotten better yes look at the D. As head coach he was blamed when D was bad even though it was bad when he got here, It is now a darn good D he gets credit for that. He had to replace an O-line coach and the O-Line has gelled he should get credit for that,  He has had to replace more RB's then Carter has got Liver pills and we still have a good run game he should get credit for that.

He was hoping JF3 would produce to give him an out if SW didn't produce or got hurt it didn't work out. Do I wish we had more options yes but a coach can only do so much.  You can't judge a coach only on the issue at QB you have to look at the whole package.

[I_M4_AU 8,285]

55 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I don't know that I'm looking for someone to blame, but I don't deny that we overworked our back. A lot of the blame actually falls on the demand to win in the SEC. If Johnson hadn't have gotten hurt and we hadn't have lost Miller, we probably wouldn't have lost Pettway.  However, since one was limited, and one was hurt, Gus did what he thought he had to in order to, honestly, keep his job. I honestly don't think he knows how to coach a pass-first offense, so he did what he knows and Pettway paid for it in the end. 

Now... your statement about Johnson and Pettway both being uninjured is a bit of a stretch, since Kerryon had a standard ankle injury that happened mid-season and didn't have anything to do with being overworked. In fact, we were rotating them pretty well until that. The most attempts Kerryon had in a game was 24, which is pretty standard for a feature back. Pettway, on the other hand had 30 in one game and 39 in another. That's absurd.

Just trying to understand the logic here:

I said; "If we had used KJ and KP in the same manner, both might still be playing unhurt".

You said; "If Johnson hadn't have gotten hurt and we hadn't have lost Miller, we probably wouldn't have lost Pettway".

Both of these statements are "if" statements, so why is mine "a stretch" and not yours?  Both are hypothetical and wishful thinking.

We were rotating the two pretty well in the first few games, but when Kerryon went down we choose not to rotate any back with Bubba.  So, to alleviate that problem, throw more.  It doesn't have to be a throw first offense, just more. That stretch of games would have been perfect to throw 20-30 times a game with a healthy SW.  All hind sight stuff, but it's frustrating to see kids get hurt.

Gus is not as innovative as I had first thought.  Sometime the pressure of the situation causes one to alter their personality to the point were you exacerbate the original problem.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Just trying to understand the logic here:

I said; "If we had used KJ and KP in the same manner, both might still be playing unhurt".

You said; "If Johnson hadn't have gotten hurt and we hadn't have lost Miller, we probably wouldn't have lost Pettway".

Both of these statements are "if" statements, so why is mine "a stretch" and not yours?  Both are hypothetical and wishful thinking.

We were rotating the two pretty well in the first few games, but when Kerryon went down we choose not to rotate any back with Bubba.  So, to alleviate that problem, throw more.  It doesn't have to be a throw first offense, just more. That stretch of games would have been perfect to throw 20-30 times a game with a healthy SW.  All hind sight stuff, but it's frustrating to see kids get hurt.

Gus is not as innovative as I had first thought.  Sometime the pressure of the situation causes one to alter their personality to the point were you exacerbate the original problem.

The point I was making is that we were playing Johnson in Pettway in that manner, and Johnson still got hurt.

[I_M4_AU 8,285]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

The point I was making is that we were playing Johnson in Pettway in that manner, and Johnson still got hurt.

The point I was making is Gus has a tendency to ride one back most of the season.  

Dyer 2010 :    carries 182      Fannin 61
Mason 2013:  carries 317.     CAP.    91
CAP 2014:      Carries 303.    Roc/Barber. 53

So there is no guarantee that if Miller was still available, he would have spelled Bubba much if at all.

We can both agree to argue another day.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

The point I was making is Gus has a tendency to ride one back most of the season.  

Dyer 2010 :    carries 182      Fannin 61
Mason 2013:  carries 317.     CAP.    91
CAP 2014:      Carries 303.    Roc/Barber. 53

So there is no guarantee that if Miller was still available, he would have spelled Bubba much if at all.

True about Miller, but at least he was the same style back.  Prior to going down, Kerryon and Kam were actually splitting pretty evenly.

I will say, in your example, other than Tre/CAP, there was a pretty steep drop in quality from feature back to #2.

[I_M4_AU 8,285]

32 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

True about Miller, but at least he was the same style back.  Prior to going down, Kerryon and Kam were actually splitting pretty evenly.

I will say, in your example, other than Tre/CAP, there was a pretty steep drop in quality from feature back to #2.

As there is this year with Kerryon going down.  Another point about those years, we had two of the most dynamic DT QBs in history that got their share of carriers and made the RB job a lot easier.

[Tigercj 242]

2 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

When Spring started last year Queen's rehab was going well they were increasing the number of throws and there was every expectation that he would be fine. Tommy John surgery has really been refined. Because of his progress they had every expectation that he would be ready by fall. During Spring he had the second injury at that point we had already signed our class and there no top notch HS QB's available.  We also had Woody, JJ, and JF3. 

When you have a run heavy offense top QB's don't line up to sign with you however if you have a strong d and a solid running game you can win. That is what bama has done for years. Even when they sign elite QB's most don't end up being elite.  Coaches have an 85 Scholarship limit to be able to have sufficient backups at all the other positions we can't have unlimited numbers of QB's. 

QB is a tough position to know until you see them in College Lamar Jackson was #17 DT when Louisville picked him up Woody was #18 DT in his class.  So Lamar looks like one of the better College QB's now but when he came out he and Woody though a year apart were rated about the same. If SW gets hurt at the beginning of the year they might have tried to bring Woody on but at this point we are better waiting till next year.

To many sofa coaches seem to think they know more about football then professional coaches. Is Gus the best coach in the Country nope has he gotten better yes look at the D. As head coach he was blamed when D was bad even though it was bad when he got here, It is now a darn good D he gets credit for that. He had to replace an O-line coach and the O-Line has gelled he should get credit for that,  He has had to replace more RB's then Carter has got Liver pills and we still have a good run game he should get credit for that.

He was hoping JF3 would produce to give him an out if SW didn't produce or got hurt it didn't work out. Do I wish we had more options yes but a coach can only do so much.  You can't judge a coach only on the issue at QB you have to look at the whole package.

I must have touched a nerve with you. 

[auburn4ever 1,266]

These Arkansas State boys that came with Gus just flat out isn't getting the job done. We need to clean house.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

7 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is exactly it, we have a passing game, but Gus is stuck in 2013.  In 2013 Tre Mason was a phemon, ran, ran and ran some more without slowing down or getting hurt.  Not everybody can do what Tre did that year.

Given what has happened with Tre since AU, I'm not so sure about the not getting hurt part.  It may have just taken a while for the pounding to show.  Last I heard, his mom was saying that he had regressed to the mentality of an eleven year old.  But as far as Gus goes, I'd say he's doing what most AU fans seem to demand and run, run, run the ball until and unless the other team shows that they can stop us. And when it's all working and the players are healthy and the O-line has gelled, no one really has shown that they can stop the AU ground game that Malzahn/Lashlee/Hand put together. And personally, it's hard for me to complain about a running game that works.  

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 11/18/2016 at 10:41 AM, bg5 said:

Unless she is the team doc she would have no way to know the condition of our players. I work with docs all day long and one thing most of them don't do is question others docs work without seeing that patient for themselves.

Sure she knows the condition of the players... hurt bad enough that they can't play. She's not questioning the doctor... he's doing the right thing by holding the players out.  She's questioning the strength and conditioning staff. In fact her biggest question is whether the strength and conditioning staff is communicating well enough with the medical staff. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 11/18/2016 at 9:57 AM, I_M4_AU said:

On 11/18/2016 at 9:53 AM, lionheartkc said:

I haven't had time to dig deep with her... she's been working a lot and has been tired once she got home. I'm hoping to pick her brain more this weekend.

I'm not sure she will know about current protocols... it's been years since she served on a football staff. What she does know is how to properly prepare a body for various activities.

Thanks, let us know.

So... we chatted this weekend and these are the nuggets of wisdom I was able to gleen.

1. She's never heard of a football team having this quantity of injuries.
2. She wonders if part of the issue is a disconnect between the training (medical) and strength and conditioning staffs.
3. She said that they do test players on the sidelines, but players are good at faking being "ok" when an injury isn't debilitating, and if they aren't honest, it can be really hard to tell how bad it is.
4. She doesn't know about any set protocols, other than concussion, and only knows that one because it gets so much coverage.
5. Based on the types of injuries, she suspects we need more flexibility training and stretching before and after workouts/games. 

[I_M4_AU 8,285]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

So... we chatted this weekend and these are the nuggets of wisdom I was able to gleen.

1. She's never heard of a football team having this quantity of injuries.
2. She wonders if part of the issue is a disconnect between the training (medical) and strength and conditioning staffs.
3. She said that they do test players on the sidelines, but players are good at faking being "ok" when an injury isn't debilitating, and if they aren't honest, it can be really hard to tell how bad it is.
4. She doesn't know about any set protocols, other than concussion, and only knows that one because it gets so much coverage.
5. Based on the types of injuries, she suspects we need more flexibility training and stretching before and after workouts/games. 

Thanks for the follow-up.  #2 is always problematic in any organization unless there are procedures to enhance communication. #5 I'm sure is critical and hopefully is in our culture in the S&C program.

[Slammer1 409]

On 11/17/2016 at 2:35 PM, bigbird said:

Good ole Hawk tackling.

 

Bird, thanks so much for posting this video. It seems like all the defensive folks want to do is make "the big hit" instead of getting the runner on the ground. This method will eliminate a lot of  helmet to helmet contact and keeps the defensive player in the game as opposed to being ejected. Why this method is not taught by everyone escapes me.