anyone ready to give lashlee a raise yet?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

11 minutes ago, keesler said:

Bottom line lionheart, we currently have a HC and an OC that either aren't able to properly evaluate QB talent for their scheme or they can't create an offensive scheme to suit the personnel THEY signed to this roster.

I don't have any trouble believing that Rhett doesn't know how to evaluate talent after signing Franklin off of that one game. I still wonder, however, if part of the problem is that we know who we want, but they just don't want us, because they see our style and it's not a QB showcase.

One thing that makes me feel better about the situation is the fact that we aren't the only team who's had trouble landing the right QB recruits. Even the perennial #1 recruiting class in the country required a QB transfer to run, last year. If Sean would have stayed healthy, everyone would still be dancing jigs and talking about beating bama. 

[keesler 5,934]

7 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Being a head coach has everything to do with recruiting and development.  I was just poking at the fact that everyone is throwing "offensive guru" in his face because he's having issues that have nothing to do with being an offensive guru. If you want to say that he's faltering at aspects of being a head coach, I can't deny that, and I don't think most are.  We are all pretty much in agreement that he's a head coach in training, but he was an offensive guru long before he was even an offensive coordinator, let alone a head coach. 

I guess the good thing is that over half of the HC's in the conference are HC's "in training"....McElwain (5 yrs), Malzhan (5 yrs), Smart (1 yr), Stoops (4yrs), Mason (3 yrs), Muschamp (5yrs), Freeze (6 yrs), Odom (1 yr)....A LOT of training and learning in this conference and we still don't know who LSU can pull in.  

[lionheartkc 6,150]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

BTW, the reason you didn't see SW is because he is #11. Oh, the horror! How did CGM make such a transformation?

 

http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&PositionGroup=QB

 

Jeremy Johnson #14 . How horrible!

http://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&PositionGroup=QB

Yup... #11 and #14.  Now how many of the guys in the top 10 ended up being great? The top 3 in 2015 were pretty amazing... it's gets pretty sketchy after that. 

The point I'm trying to make here, if you can stop being incensed long enough to think about it instead of just throwing back retorts, is that it's freaking hard to land a rock star QB, and even harder the farther down the list you go.

And who did we battle to land Sean and Jeremy. Next in line for Jeremy was... no one.  He didn't even visit other schools. Next in line for Sean was Wisconsin. Not hard to believe a Florida guy would prefer to play in the SEC. Now, we wanted Deshaun Watson instead of Sean. We didn't get him. I personally think we landed a solid QB with Sean, but he's no Deshaun Watson, and no matter who is coaching him, he'll never be a Deshaun Watson, because he'll never be that level of athlete. Even if he fixes his deep ball and starts for a whole year without injury, he's going to be lucky to be a late round NFL pick or get picked up as a free agent.  Like Nick Marshall... he has some elements of his game that are above average and he has the potential to be a great QB, but his lack of size and ability to take a beating is something you can't coach into him. 

If and when we are able to land the QBs that everyone is fighting over... then we are going to see some serious QB play out of the gate, and whoever is coaching our QBs is going to look like a rock star.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

23 minutes ago, keesler said:

I guess the good thing is that over half of the HC's in the conference are HC's "in training"....McElwain (5 yrs), Malzhan (5 yrs), Smart (1 yr), Stoops (4yrs), Mason (3 yrs), Muschamp (5yrs), Freeze (6 yrs), Odom (1 yr)....A LOT of training and learning in this conference and we still don't know who LSU can pull in.  

So true... Amazing how the SEC is still considered dominant with so many coaches trying to figure out how to coach. Of that list, Freeze probably has it figured out the best, and he is facing NCAA sanctions for cheating to get there.

[DAG 34,121]

14 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Yup... #11 and #14.  Now how many of the guys in the top 10 ended up being great? The top 3 in 2015 were pretty amazing... it's gets pretty sketchy after that. 

The point I'm trying to make here, if you can stop being incensed long enough to think about it instead of just throwing back retorts, is that it's freaking hard to land a rock star QB, and even harder the farther down the list you go.

And who did we battle to land Sean and Jeremy. Next in line for Jeremy was... no one.  He didn't even visit other schools. Next in line for Sean was Wisconsin. Not hard to believe a Florida guy would prefer to play in the SEC. Now, we wanted Deshaun Watson instead of Sean. We didn't get him. I personally think we landed a solid QB with Sean, but he's no Deshaun Watson, and no matter who is coaching him, he'll never be a Deshaun Watson, because he'll never be that level of athlete. Even if he fixes his deep ball and starts for a whole year without injury, he's going to be lucky to be a late round NFL pick or get picked up as a free agent.  Like Nick Marshall... he has some elements of his game that are above average and he has the potential to be a great QB, but his lack of size and ability to take a beating is something you can't coach into him. 

If and when we are able to land the QBs that everyone is fighting over... then we are going to see some serious QB play out of the gate, and whoever is coaching our QBs is going to look like a rock star.

3

The truth is that Auburn doesn't land top QBs and that's something that we really need to fix, which isn't easy with an offense that throws less than 20 times a game.

^^^^^^ This was your point. Now you are just spinning stuff.  Doesn't matter who visited what school or who was vying for our QBs. All three were ranked in the top ten by three reputable sites. Now if you want to argue they weren't in 247s total top ten QB rankings. Fine. However, they were both top 15 QBs in the nation according to that site. I consider that high quality.

Let's stick to the talking point. I never said it was easy to land a rock star QB. But we did land CN and Frazier, two considerable rock star QBs according to the initial rankings. One panned out and the other did not. 

Haha I am not incensed one bit. You called me out for giving credit to Lane Kiffin. I presented my case. This is where we are at.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

The truth is that Auburn doesn't land top QBs and that's something that we really need to fix, which isn't easy with an offense that throws less than 20 times a game.

^^^^^^ This was your point. Now you are just spinning stuff.  Doesn't matter who visited what school or who was vying for our QBs. All three were ranked in the top ten by three reputable sites. Now if you want to argue they weren't in 247s total top ten QB rankings. Fine. However, they were both top 15 QBs in the nation according to that site. I consider that high quality.

How is the my statement above any different than my longer explanation about how hard it is to land top QBs and how we need to win the battles for them if we're going to have a rock star straight out of the gate?

Top 15 definitely gives them a better shot at high quality. Sean is certainly high quality... though not rock star.  Jeremy had all of the intangibles, but it didn't work out.  I still argue that the chance of a QB being a rock star drops dramatically, and the chance of them not working out increases with each step below #1 that you go.  Of course there are the Lamar Jacksons of the world. To get them, you have to be able to see into the future... or get lucky. I'm not sure which Petrino did.

[DAG 34,121]

Just now, lionheartkc said:

How is the my statement above any different than my longer explanation about how hard it is to land top QBs and how we need to win the battles for them if we're going to have a rock star straight out of the gate?

Top 15 definitely gives them a better shot at high quality. Sean is certainly high quality... though not rock star.  Jeremy had all of the intangibles, but it didn't work out.  I still argue that the chance of a QB being a rock star drops dramatically, and the chance of them not working out increases with each step below #1 that you go.  Of course there are the Lamar Jacksons of the world. To get them, you have to be able to see into the future... or get lucky. I'm not sure which Petrino did.

Alright lionheart. 

[oracle79 3,569]

What was Randy Campbell ranked?  Jason Campbell? Brandon Cox?  Oh, forgot we're talking about Malzahn's offense that ironically doesn't need a DT QB to thrive?  This is tiresome.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

5 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

What was Randy Campbell ranked?  Jason Campbell? Brandon Cox?  Oh, forgot we're talking about Malzahn's offense that ironically doesn't need a DT QB to thrive?  This is tiresome.

huh?

[TigerinBham 1]

After last Saturdays debacle h*** no.

[Tigercj 242]

15 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

How is the my statement above any different than my longer explanation about how hard it is to land top QBs and how we need to win the battles for them if we're going to have a rock star straight out of the gate?

Top 15 definitely gives them a better shot at high quality. Sean is certainly high quality... though not rock star.  Jeremy had all of the intangibles, but it didn't work out.  I still argue that the chance of a QB being a rock star drops dramatically, and the chance of them not working out increases with each step below #1 that you go.  Of course there are the Lamar Jacksons of the world. To get them, you have to be able to see into the future... or get lucky. I'm not sure which Petrino did.

If you look at QB recruits year in and year out there is not much difference in physical abilities of top 10. Our problems at that position is easy to deduce we do not have anyone on this staff who can develop a QB from the time he arrives till he leaves. You can point all you want to cam and nick most of their development had been done. If Gus had developed nick into such a better passer then why is he playing defensive back in NFL. You can wear your orange and blue glasses if you want but we don't have a true QB coach. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, Tigercj said:

You can point all you want to cam and nick most of their development had been done.

I'm confused... who did this "most of their development" for Cam and Nick prior to their arrival.  Nick was a DB at Georgia, so he certainly didn't pick up and QB skills there. Are you saying that the coaches at Garden City Community College are better than the coaches at Auburn? If so, why don't we just trade staffs?  I'm sure it would save us a fortune.

As for Cam... while I'm sure he picked up a few things as a freshman at Florida, I will again point to the fact that the majority of his coaching at QB came from a JuCo. 

Don't get me wrong... I don't think we have anywhere near the best QB coaching in college football, but this constant droning that a group of people are doing about us not being able to develop QBs at all is just silly. Do I hope we bring someone in, next year, who's a rockstar QB coach... heck yea. Do I think we can still win if we don't... you bet I do.

[Tigercj 242]

3 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I'm confused... who did this "most of their development" for Cam and Nick prior to their arrival.  Nick was a DB at Georgia, so he certainly didn't pick up and QB skills there. Are you saying that the coaches at Garden City Community College are better than the coaches at Auburn? If so, why don't we just trade staffs?  I'm sure it would save us a fortune.

As for Cam... while I'm sure he picked up a few things as a freshman at Florida, I will again point to the fact that the majority of his coaching at QB came from a JuCo. 

Don't get me wrong... I don't think we have anywhere near the best QB coaching in college football, but this constant droning that a group of people are doing about us not being able to develop QBs at all is just silly. Do I hope we bring someone in, next year, who's a rockstar QB coach... heck yea. Do I think we can still win if we don't... you bet I do.

We will agree to disagree. 

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

9 hours ago, Tigercj said:

If Gus had developed nick into such a better passer then why is he playing defensive back in NFL. You can wear your orange and blue glasses if you want but we don't have a true QB coach. 

I get what you're trying to say, but come on... Nick Marshall wasn't the prototypical NFL QB and was competing against at least a dozen who were. NM wanted a shot at a paycheck and Defensive back was the best one.

[Tigercj 242]

1 hour ago, JBiGGiE said:

I get what you're trying to say, but come on... Nick Marshall wasn't the prototypical NFL QB and was competing against at least a dozen who were. NM wanted a shot at a paycheck and Defensive back was the best one.

There have been several non protypical NFL QB drafted in the pass. This is not a knock on nicks athletic abilities because without them he would not have been as successful at Auburn as he was. Gus and Rhett never developed his skills while he was here, which is a shame. I still believe if we had a QB coach that could have helped nick polish his passing skills he might have been given the opportunity to play QB at next level.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Winning 7 or 8 or even 9 is not enough for Malzahn or Lashlee to earn any kind of raise.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

14 hours ago, Tigercj said:

There have been several non protypical NFL QB drafted in the pass. This is not a knock on nicks athletic abilities because without them he would not have been as successful at Auburn as he was. Gus and Rhett never developed his skills while he was here, which is a shame. I still believe if we had a QB coach that could have helped nick polish his passing skills he might have been given the opportunity to play QB at next level.

This discussion has been had before.  To play QB in the NFL, without prototypical size, you have to be elite. I don't care who would have coached him in college, he wasn't going to become an elite passer in 2 years. He has small hands, which make it harder to begin with.  He's short, so it's harder to find passing lanes and read defenses. He also didn't focus on it. Elite QBs spend their lives honing their passing skills.

All you have to do is look at his numbers to see that he was a better passer in 2014 than he was in 2013. 

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

22 hours ago, Tigercj said:

We will agree to disagree. 

I disagree

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

14 hours ago, auburn4ever said:

Winning 7 or 8 or even 9 is not enough for Malzahn or Lashlee to earn any kind of raise.

Screen capping the smartest thing Auburn4Ever has ever typed ?

[Tigercj 242]

2 hours ago, AUinTLoosa said:

I disagree

So disagree 

[oposssum 22]

Almost had it.  Have to be quicker than that.

[Tigercj 242]

2 hours ago, AUinTLoosa said:

I disagree

So disagree 

[Tigercj 242]

2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

This discussion has been had before.  To play QB in the NFL, without prototypical size, you have to be elite. I don't care who would have coached him in college, he wasn't going to become an elite passer in 2 years. He has small hands, which make it harder to begin with.  He's short, so it's harder to find passing lanes and read defenses. He also didn't focus on it. Elite QBs spend their lives honing their passing skills.

All you have to do is look at his numbers to see that he was a better passer in 2014 than he was in 2013. 

If you believe that Gus and Rhett can develop a QB than that's your opinion. And you should be okay with the QB play that we have had over past couple of years and for the years to come. I do not wear orange and blue glasses when it comes to QB development. This staff has not shown that it is capable of that feat in my opinion. Like I said if you believe that they can develop a QB then fine you can be happy with state of this development.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 minutes ago, Tigercj said:

If you believe that Gus and Rhett can develop a QB than that's your opinion. And you should be okay with the QB play that we have had over past couple of years and for the years to come. I do not wear orange and blue glasses when it comes to QB development. This staff has not shown that it is capable of that feat in my opinion. Like I said if you believe that they can develop a QB then fine you can be happy with state of this development.

I 'm great with having the #1 rated QB in the SEC for the majority of the season. I'm also looking forward to seeing what Woody can do.

[DAG 34,121]

12 minutes ago, Tigercj said:

If you believe that Gus and Rhett can develop a QB than that's your opinion. And you should be okay with the QB play that we have had over past couple of years and for the years to come. I do not wear orange and blue glasses when it comes to QB development. This staff has not shown that it is capable of that feat in my opinion. Like I said if you believe that they can develop a QB then fine you can be happy with state of this development.

 

All I know is Gus really need to do everything possible short of giving Stidham money. I am not to keen in Bishop playing QB, tbh. No more athletes.