Jason Smith moves to QB

[80Tiger 907]

23 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Ok... you're not getting what I'm saying.  Yes... any player can get ONE medical red shirt and ONE standard red shirt, thus Jason white's 6 years. The standard red shirt requires the player be enrolled and taking classes, allows practice with the team and dressing for the game, but allows NO play time. This is the common red shirt for Freshmen, though it can be taken later in ones career in rare cases. A medical red shirt is given to someone who plays in 30% or less of the season and none after game 6. In order to receive this red shirt, it has to be approved by the NCAA.  You can't just go "he's hurt, we're going to red shirt him". Contrary to may tinfoil hat theories, very few, if any schools fake injuries to get a red shirt year.  

It doesn't matter if they took a regular red shirt or not, they have to file for a medical red shirt.  What you are thinking of, at the end of a career, is filing for an extra year of eligibility. That is for players who are injured more than once. They are requesting an extra year of eligibility because they weren't eligible to file for a medical red shirt with their second injury.

Here's some light reading for you... http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/07/17/how-get-medical-redshirt.htm

 

Jason White had to file for the 6th year hardship waiver. It is not a very common thing. If you are saying "any player can get ONE medical red shirt and ONE standard red shirt" that is not correct unless special dispensation is handed down by NCAA. All players have 5 years of eligibility to play 4 years. In that time they can take one redshirt (medical or regular). Maybe I am reading it wrong but your statement indicates that 6 years is available to every player.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, 80Tiger said:

Jason White had to file for the 6th year hardship waiver. It is not a very common thing. If you are saying "any player can get ONE medical red shirt and ONE standard red shirt" that is not correct unless special dispensation is handed down by NCAA. All players have 5 years of eligibility to play 4 years. In that time they can take one redshirt (medical or regular). Maybe I am reading it wrong but your statement indicates that 6 years is available to every player.

Generally speaking, no one is denied the extra year if they need a single medical red shirt. It's more questionable if they have a second season ending injury, though most of those are approved too. As long as the injury is legit, the NCAA is pretty lenient. The don't want to get the reputation for punishing players who are injured.

[80Tiger 907]

29 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Generally speaking, no one is denied the extra year if they need a single medical red shirt. It's more questionable if they have a second season ending injury, though most of those are approved too. As long as the injury is legit, the NCAA is pretty lenient. The don't want to get the reputation for punishing players who are injured.

So are you saying a player can get a first year redshirt, then a medical redshirt and then apply for a 3rd redshirt due another injury?   I don't mean for this to drag out, but players get a single red shirt, whatever the reason. A second redshirt which has to be due to injury reasons, is the hardship waiver and then allows for the 6th year. As I read your post I continue to get the impression that players can get a redshirt; then a medical redshirt , then a special hardship wavier for a potential 3rd redshirt. This is the exact reason there is no difference in why a person is redshirted. You get one redshirt, unless special request and waiver is granted for the 6th year. Again, I don't think it is common because Jason White is the only one I could think of and that is been a while.

[DyeCampAlum 335]

I wonder if we can agree on this. The chances that Jason Smith could outperform Franklin or Barrett as a basic QB are very slim right now. You don't just decide to return a guy to that position and get winning results.

If that's the case, then the coaches are up to something else -- like a package. I can't figure out what that would be, but that's the only thing that makes any kind of sense.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 minutes ago, 80Tiger said:

So are you saying a player can get a first year redshirt, then a medical redshirt and then apply for a 3rd redshirt due another injury?   I don't mean for this to drag out, but players get a single red shirt, whatever the reason. A second redshirt which has to be due to injury reasons, is the hardship waiver and then allows for the 6th year. As I read your post I continue to get the impression that players can get a redshirt; then a medical redshirt , then a special hardship wavier for a potential 3rd redshirt. This is the exact reason there is no difference in why a person is redshirted. You get one redshirt, unless special request and waiver is granted for the 6th year. Again, I don't think it is common because Jason White is the only one I could think of and that is been a while.

Yes... that's what I'm saying.  The first year red shirt followed by an injury red shirt are common. Example... Tyler Queen.  A second medical red shirt is pretty uncommon. I can recall it happening, but can't remember who it was, specifically, but in those cases the standard freshman red shirt year wasn't taken.  There are VERY rare cases where the NCAA has actually granted a 7th year...

http://www.utahutes.com/news/2007/1/11/Darryl_Poston_Granted_A_Seventh_Year.aspx?path=football

As for there being no difference between a medical red shirt and a standard red shirt... i guess you didn't take the time to read the link I provided earlier.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, DyeCampAlum said:

I wonder if we can agree on this. The chances that Jason Smith could outperform Franklin or Barrett as a basic QB are very slim right now.

I'm afraid I can't agree to that. I mentioned it before, but Jason has far more post-high school experience at QB than Barrett does- 10 starts at a juco that is practically a D1 farm team. He was also pretty accomplished in high school. 

And I'm not sure what "as a basic QB" means, but if Franklin's traditional quarterbacking skills were adequate then he would have been the unquestioned starter from day 1. 

Jason was a superior juco quarterback to Franklin. I'm not certain at all that he couldn't be a superior BCS quarterback. 

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

I'm afraid I can't agree to that. I mentioned it before, but Jason has far more post-high school experience at QB than Barrett does- 10 starts at a juco that is practically a D1 farm team. He was also pretty accomplished in high school. 

And I'm not sure what "as a basic QB" means, but if Franklin's traditional quarterbacking skills were adequate then he would have been the unquestioned starter from day 1. 

Jason was a superior juco quarterback to Franklin. I'm not certain at all that he couldn't be a superior BCS quarterback. 

And... we don't want to burn Barrett's red shirt, so he's not an option.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, lionheartkc said:

And... we don't want to burn Barrett's red shirt, so he's not an option.

Totally agree with you, but going on face value of what I was responding to- could Smith be a better quarterback than Barrett right now?- I was focusing on ability. 

Also, something that keeps getting lost in all this is that Jason is a really, really good athlete himself.

FTR, I don't think "WR-in-doghouse-turned-QB1-heir-apparent" is a thing yet. I just think that 1) it makes good sense to shift a former QB over to that silo for depth given what we have at the two positions- 13 other guys have caught at least 2 passes to his 0 (granted, a couple/few of them weren't WRs) while we only have 2 guys on roster who have demonstrated adequate QB ability at the FBS level- and 2) I think it's completely possible that he could be a pretty good QB. Of course, I was one of the dummies who thought Sean might push Jeremy for his spot...

[80Tiger 907]

33 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Yes... that's what I'm saying.  The first year red shirt followed by an injury red shirt are common. Example... Tyler Queen.  A second medical red shirt is pretty uncommon. I can recall it happening, but can't remember who it was, specifically, but in those cases the standard freshman red shirt year wasn't taken.  There are VERY rare cases where the NCAA has actually granted a 7th year...

http://www.utahutes.com/news/2007/1/11/Darryl_Poston_Granted_A_Seventh_Year.aspx?path=football

As for there being no difference between a medical red shirt and a standard red shirt... i guess you didn't take the time to read the link I provided earlier.

Did you even read your own link about the 5 yr clock? Saying that players need to keep that in mind since they have 5 yrs to play 4 and "that generally a player cannot use a medical redshirt if they had previously redshirted". They have to make special hardship waiver request.  That's from your article you linked.  As for Tyler Queen he is considered a RS Freshman. He has only had the one redshirt year, last year. 2 red shirt years are not common. I haven't checked but I don't think there is a single player on the team that is 6th year not sure whose AU last 6th year player was. Come on, admit you were wrong about 2 redshirts being common. You will feel better.

[aufan57 922]

7 minutes ago, 80Tiger said:

Did you even read your own link about the 5 yr clock? Saying that players need to keep that in mind since they have 5 yrs to play 4 and "that generally a player cannot use a medical redshirt if they had previously redshirted". They have to make special hardship waiver request.  That's from your article you linked.  As for Tyler Queen he is considered a RS Freshman. He has only had the one redshirt year, last year. 2 red shirt years are not common. I haven't checked but I don't think there is a single player on the team that is 6th year not sure whose AU last 6th year player was. Come on, admit you were wrong about 2 redshirts being common. You will feel better.

Names off top of head, Shon Coleman, Tez Doolittle, Aairon Savage all granted 6th year of eligibility.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Lol. Picturing Allen Iverson saying, "We in here talkin' about eligibility."

[bigbird 60,926]

13 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Lol. Picturing Allen Iverson saying, "We in here talkin' about eligibility."

I thought the same thing about turnovers in another thread

[80Tiger 907]

34 minutes ago, aufan57 said:

Names off top of head, Shon Coleman, Tez Doolittle, Aairon Savage all granted 6th year of eligibility.

So 3 in the past 8 years or so. So about 1.5%. That sounds about right. I didn't say it doesn't happen, just does not seem like that often.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

45 minutes ago, 80Tiger said:

Did you even read your own link about the 5 yr clock? Saying that players need to keep that in mind since they have 5 yrs to play 4 and "that generally a player cannot use a medical redshirt if they had previously redshirted". They have to make special hardship waiver request.  That's from your article you linked.  As for Tyler Queen he is considered a RS Freshman. He has only had the one redshirt year, last year. 2 red shirt years are not common. I haven't checked but I don't think there is a single player on the team that is 6th year not sure whose AU last 6th year player was. Come on, admit you were wrong about 2 redshirts being common. You will feel better.

Would you like me to send you a pile of articles about players receiving their 6th year?  I can. I already sent you one about a player receiving his 7th year. It is quite common for a player who took a standard freshman redshirt year and then loses a season to injury in a future year to get the medical redshirt and a 6th year. What it not common is for players to lose a year to injury.

1 minute ago, 80Tiger said:

So 3 in the past 8 years or so. So about 1.5%. That sounds about right. I didn't say it doesn't happen, just does not seem like that often.

Seriously?  Let me ask you this... how many players do you think are actually injured to the point where they are out for more than 30% of the season?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

34 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Lol. Picturing Allen Iverson saying, "We in here talkin' about eligibility."

I just love how it started with "all redshirts are the same" and then when documented proof of that was presented it was "no one takes 2 redshirts" and now it's "well, it's only a small percentage of Auburn players, so it's not common".  I feel like I'm talking to a presidential candidate.

[80Tiger 907]

17 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I just love how it started with "all redshirts are the same" and then when documented proof of that was presented it was "no one takes 2 redshirts" and now it's "well, it's only a small percentage of Auburn players, so it's not common".  I feel like I'm talking to a presidential candidate.

If you want to say it is common go ahead if it make you feel better. I feel like I am talking to may kids when they were young.

[Timeslider 6 269]

It's an interesting thought, maybe Jason Smith could have been more had he been given some serious looks at QB and allowed to develop as others have been given the chance. I feel he was moved to WR too soon. Given as much attention as JF III has been given he could have developed into as good a backup, maybe better, as him. JMHO

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, Timeslider 6 said:

It's an interesting thought, maybe Jason Smith could have been more had he been given some serious looks at QB and allowed to develop as others have been given the chance. I feel he was moved to WR too soon. Given as much attention as JF III has been given he could have developed into as good a backup, maybe better, as him. JMHO

As I've heard it, he made the call to switch to Wide Receiver quickly, because he knew he wouldn't get the start at QB and he wanted playing time.  That being said, I agree that he could have had a shot had he stuck with QB.

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

As I've heard it, he made the call to switch to Wide Receiver quickly, because he knew he wouldn't get the start at QB and he wanted playing time.  That being said, I agree that he could have had a shot had he stuck with QB.

My understanding, also. 

It's funny how people laughed at the possibility of Jason getting a legit shot at QB when he came in, and then many of those same people had John penciled in as their starter a year later. All a matter of timing. 

[Charhair 345]

7 hours ago, McLoofus said:

My understanding, also. 

It's funny how people laughed at the possibility of Jason getting a legit shot at QB when he came in, and then many of those same people had John penciled in as their starter a year later. All a matter of timing. 

In all fairness, at the time of JS moving to WR, many (possibly including smith) thought we had an all star QB in JJ.

and at the time of JF3s arrival, we seemed to be questionable at QB. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 hours ago, Charhair said:

In all fairness, at the time of JS moving to WR, many (possibly including smith) thought we had an all star QB in JJ.

and at the time of JF3s arrival, we seemed to be questionable at QB. 

Exactly. 

[Charhair 345]

51 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Exactly. 

it makes you wonder if Jason would have ended up taking over instead of SW had he never moved to WR. 

I feel like any FAST QB running the read with JR would have been a lot better than what we fielded. Especially on a year where the offense was not set up to have a pass first QB. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 hours ago, Charhair said:

In all fairness, at the time of JS moving to WR, many (possibly including smith) thought we had an all star QB in JJ.

and at the time of JF3s arrival, we seemed to be questionable at QB. 

Which plays right back into what @McLoofus was getting at.  Our fan base is full of assumptions about players, often with little fact or logic to back it up.  That being said, Jeremy fooled everyone by being lights out in practice, so I can't blame Smith for wanting to see the field when it looked like QB was a direct route to bench warming.

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, Charhair said:

it makes you wonder if Jason would have ended up taking over instead of SW had he never moved to WR. 

Either that, or there's a good chance he would've taken and kept the job after Sean got hurt and, depending on how he performed, he might've been our day 1 QB this year and Franklin might not have never been recruited. It's a lot less crazy than at least a dozen different things that have happened inside this program since 2009. 

3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Which plays right back into what @McLoofus was getting at.  Our fan base is full of assumptions about players, often with little fact or logic to back it up.  That being said, Jeremy fooled everyone by being lights out in practice, so I can't blame Smith for wanting to see the field when it looked like QB was a direct route to bench warming.

Exactly again. Quicker route to getting on the field, CDC was probably plenty encouraging about making the move, he likely would've projected as a WR at the next level anyway, everybody thought our WRs were going to put up video game numbers last year *and* this year... probably a no brainer for him at the time. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

I'm just glad certain posters here are no longer assuming that Smith is in the doghouse..