Top 4 Wrs based on talent and upside

[GwillMac6 20,849]

This thread was just about who do you think is our most TALENTED WRs based on nothing but talent alone not on production obviously.

[bigbird 60,926]

2 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

This thread was just about who do you think is our most TALENTED WRs based on nothing but talent alone not on production obviously.

Serious question. How does one evaluate talent with out production? 

[alexava 6,974]

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Serious question. How does one evaluate talent with out production? 

Stars dude, stars. 

[GwillMac6 20,849]

10 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Serious question. How does one evaluate talent with out production? 

for me it is upside when I look at a recruits high school tape and their measurables. So obviously I am going to favor the young guys in this since we have seen what the older guys have done and not done. Plus any bread crumbs we get coming out of practices. Having said that pleasantly suprised to see tony stevens finally play up to his potential. I was super excited when we got him and until now he had not performed up to snuff. He was a highly rated recruit to I believe. Rivals 100.

[VipersStrike1 230]

18 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

;] I could of used Wide Receiver

You could HAVE for sure. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

Do you know why he is being held out if it's not ability wise? What is wrong between his ears? 

Besides your 2nd question sounding like it needs a punchline, the only real evidence I've seen was an article on BammerLive.com (credit to Wesley Sinor) a couple weeks ago...

I won't link it since it's so taboo around here but here's the gist of it...

"Auburn quarterback Sean White spread the ball to 10 different receivers in Saturday's 51-14 win over Arkansas State, but Jason Smith was surprisingly not one of them.

Smith has seen limited snaps thus far in 2016 and has yet to catch a pass. When asked about the junior's slow start Tuesday, Auburn head coach Gus Malzahn indicated Smith needs to impress wide receivers coach Kodi Burns some more in practice.

"Kodi's got the standpoint that you earn what you get," Malzahn said. "Jason's continued to work hard. I think you could see Jason's role grow more and more as the season goes on."

Smith transferred to Auburn last year from Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College. The 6-foot-1, 188-pounder got some reps at quarterback but was quickly moved to wide receiver, a move many around the program saw coming. He caught 13 passes for 203 yards and two touchdowns last season, including a 77-yard tipped catch for a score in the Iron Bowl loss to Alabama.

This offseason Smith worked as an outside receiver this spring before moving back inside during fall camp. Despite the position changes, Burns told reporters in early August he was impressed with Smith's quickness, understanding of the playbook and general comforts in the offense.

"He feels a sense of urgency that, 'Hey, I want to be that guy; I want to be that big-play guy,'" Burns said. "So hopefully we can bring him along and he can help us out as well."

"I've been moving around; this is like my third position," Smith said last month. "I get kind of frustrated with all the changes and stuff, but that comes with the game. You got to be able to help the team in any kind of way, so that comes with it... I think I can bring the impact into this offense but a lot of guys are stepping up and no matter who gets thrown in there we're not lacking at all.""

I'm not 100% sure how to construe CGM's quote but sounds like maybe he's not giving QUITE the effort or good attitude they expect... not sure.

LIke I said, not sure if that really means anything or not but sounds like CKB might be looking for more effort maybe?

 

[bigbird 60,926]

18 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

This thread was just about who do you think is our most TALENTED WRs based on nothing but talent alone not on production obviously.

 

7 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

for me it is upside when I look at a recruits high school tape and their measurables. So obviously I am going to favor the young guys in this since we have seen what the older guys have done and not done. Plus any bread crumbs we get coming out of practices. Having said that pleasantly suprised to see tony stevens finally play up to his potential. I was super excited when we got him and until now he had not performed up to snuff. He was a highly rated recruit to I believe. Rivals 150.

This is where I am confused and im not trying to be a jerk, but You're saying based on talent alone not productivity but then base you favor for the freshman on the production seen and not seen by the others 

So again, what dictates talent if not production. You say measurables, but Steve Smith and Calvin Johnson were both great receivers and were not any where close to each other as far as measurables.

[GwillMac6 20,849]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

 

This is where I am confused and im not trying to be a jerk, but You're saying based on talent alone not productivity but then base you favor for the freshman on the production seen and not seen by the others 

So again, what dictates talent if not production. You say measurables, but Steve Smith and Calvin Johnson were both great receivers and were not any where close to each other as far as measurables.

what does steve smith and calvin johnson have to do with any of the Wrs on our teams?  Its basically just me admitting to be a star whore for recruiting rankings. As someone who is addicted to recruiting last years recruiting class for our Wrs was absolutely a dream for me.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

As someone who is addicted to recruiting last years recruiting class for our Wrs was absolutely a dream for me.

In that case, I think we all agree with you, lol. 

To whoever was asking, there have been mentions of Smith being in the doghouse. I don't have a link. Given his extreme lack of reps and production, I don't really need one. A guy like that at least sees the field unless he's injured or being punished. 

[bigbird 60,926]

5 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

 As someone who is addicted to recruiting, last years recruiting class for our Wrs was absolutely a dream for me.

I think it was for everyone. Their potential out of this world.

[GwillMac6 20,849]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

I think it was for everyone. Their potential out of this world.

O ok I get what you were asking about steve smith and Calvin Johnson. I ranked KD and NCM 1 and 2 because yes of course smaller wrs can be great. Heck the best WR in the NFL right now is Antonio Brown. My preference is always the prototypical number 1 wr look like a AJ Green and Julio Jones. Thats why I have KD and NCM ranked higher than the smaller wrs on my list. just a preference.

[aujeff11 6,243]

36 minutes ago, bigbird said:

 

This is where I am confused and im not trying to be a jerk, but You're saying based on talent alone not productivity but then base you favor for the freshman on the production seen and not seen by the others 

So again, what dictates talent if not production. You say measurables, but Steve Smith and Calvin Johnson were both great receivers and were not any where close to each other as far as measurables.

They're both apples, oranges players. Just like a bruiser RB and a scatback both reaching 1000 rushing yards in completely different styles of play. There isn't one universal criteria for a WR. I don't need the game field to tell me which receiver is more talented than others. All i  would need is one summer session or one fall camp session to see who is the most talented. Like during our long going "SW sucks at running ? " debates, we agreed that people uniquely have their own distinguishable skill sets. I might compare NCM with KD and Eli Stove with Truitt for example.

As far as freshman receivers being declared more talented than veteran receivers, you can tell they are more talented just by the way they are already starting to eat up the playing time. Once again, where is Marcus Davis? The young bucks( in particular Kyle Davis and NCM) look like they get open more and can grab a jump ball. Which is something we have sorely missed. Rico wasn't that great at it and Quan Bray was only good at it his senior year. 

Beside that, our WR group was pretty bare to start with. We had Darius Slayton and he is largely considered a young talented guy.  Ryan Davis is another young guy but he ate up his redshirt for one meaningful, trick play last year. Then there is Jason Smith. He had 200 total receiving yards last year but 70 came of them came off of a flukish play. Marcus Davis has yet to become a force throughout his career as well. Lastly there is Truitt. He is talented, another track star, and a good role model for Eli Stove.

[Linayus 676]

Based on talent and what little I've seen from each - here we go:

1. Kyle Davis
2. Tony Stevens
3. Nate Craig-Myers
4. Will Hastings
5. Marcus Davis

You might laugh at my ranking Hastings so highly, but his footwork is great, routes are run well, and he catches dang near every pass thrown to him. He needs to be Sean's safety valve on every pass play.

Marcus is on the field because he knows every WR position and will line up anywhere they want him to. He's solid but not a breakout player. He was basically our Will Hastings last season.

I have to say I'm super impressed with what Kodi Burns has done for our WR group. I can't believe Craig let some of this talent waste away on the bench.

[cole256 17,085]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

Serious question. How does one evaluate talent with out production? 

You can't

[bigbird 60,926]

21 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

They're both apples, oranges players. Just like a bruiser RB and a scatback both reaching 1000 rushing yards in completely different styles of play. There isn't one universal criteria for a WR. I don't need the game field to tell me which receiver is more talented than others. All i  would need is one summer session or one fall camp session to see who is the most talented. Like during our long going "SW sucks at running ? " debates, we agreed that people uniquely have their own distinguishable skill sets. I might compare NCM with KD and Eli Stove with Truitt for example.

 

Again, you seem to be contradicting yourself. If not, I apologize, but you seem to be saying you don't need them to produce on the field but you will evaluate them from the product on the practice field? I just think that talent, measurables, potential is all smoke. Only until it is put to use can you see the fire

[cole256 17,085]

You might could in some situations from eye tests but none of us has access to have watched them long and consistently enough to do so. Only thing we can see is on the field.....

[DAG 34,552]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Jason Smith has fallen out of grace for issues between his ears. Has nothing to do with athletic ability. He was our 3rd leading WR last year and our only legitimate deep threat. Congrats on predicting an unfortunate end to his career, though. 

 

Last year is last year. How do you know that? Can you link that and show your proof to that? Also, it is not the end of his career. Dramatic much? If he is not on the field and it is not for a medical reason, then it is up to him to get on the field. I am pretty sure you were the one disagreeing with me on that fact though earlier this year.

[aujeff11 6,243]

10 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Again, you seem to be contradicting yourself. If not, I apologize, but you seem to be saying you don't need them to produce on the field but you will evaluate them from the product on the practice field? I just think that talent, measurables, potential is all smoke. Only until it is put to use can you see the fire

If you're saying the practice field and the game field is the same thing, then you're totally correct. I have heard about certain players being practice warriors though. My whole point was and is that players can fail to achieve results on the game  field and still be just as talented as the rest of his teammates. And they can fail for a whole variety of reasons.

[Barnacle 9,095]

7 minutes ago, cole256 said:

You might could in some situations from eye tests but none of us has access to have watched them long and consistently enough to do so. Only thing we can see is on the field.....

Yeah that's where I am coming from as well, Cole. I can only go off of what I've seen from the field. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, DAG said:

Last year is last year. How do you know that? Can you link that and show your proof to that? Also, it is not the end of his career. Dramatic much? If he is not on the field and it is not for a medical reason, then it is up to him to get on the field. I am pretty sure you were the one disagreeing with me on that fact though earlier this year.

Dang. 2nd time in as many days I thought a junior is a senior. My bad.

As for the rest, just reading the tea leaves and applying logic. I need no proof. Almost every other WR of note has as many catches as Smith does game reps. He's not even stepping on the field, and it's not because he's a converted QB. 

Still, enjoy high fiving yourself because you predicted that a kid who plays for the team you're a fan of wouldn't succeed. I'm sure it feels great. 

[DAG 34,552]

Just now, McLoofus said:

Dang. 2nd time in as many days I thought a junior is a senior. My bad. 

As for the rest, just reading the tea leaves and applying logic. I need no proof. Almost every other WR of note has as many catches as Smith does game reps. He's not even stepping on the field, and it's not because he's a converted QB. 

So you have none.  That is all you had to say. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, DAG said:

So you have none.  That is all you had to say. 

Ahh, the link cops are out. Awesome.

Show me the link where somebody is quoted as saying that Smith isn't succeeding because he used to play quarterback. That's how this works, yes? 

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Dang. 2nd time in as many days I thought a junior is a senior. My bad. 

As for the rest, just reading the tea leaves and applying logic. I need no proof. Almost every other WR of note has as many catches as Smith does game reps. He's not even stepping on the field, and it's not because he's a converted QB. 

You're just looking ahead to next season when Auburn's gonna be AWESOME!!!!

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, AUsince72 said:

You're just looking ahead to next season when Auburn's gonna be AWESOME!!!!

I'm with 23. I don't think we'll even have to wait that long. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

Just now, McLoofus said:

I'm with 23. I don't think we'll even have to wait that long. 

Hey, I'm with both of you as long as the O-Line continues to improve and Rhett surprises us.