Offensive style with JF3

[bigbird 60,926]

54 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

 

This right here is the problem. There has been no improvement by any of the QB's. None. What you saw during A-Day is what you are going to get from the QB position. Awful. 

Well, an improvement  in other areas, specifically OL and WR, will allow the QBs to improve the performance of the team without necessarily improving themselves.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

Well, an improvement  in other areas, specifically OL and WR, will allow the QBs to improve the performance of the team without necessarily improving themselves.  

 

There are only 11 positions on offense. I don't understand why people are only able to focus on one at a time. The differences in the roster are major, but people keep ignoring that fact in these QB conversations.

 

I'd add that we probably upgraded at the OL coaching position in a big way and, for better or worse, made a change at the WR coaching position, where the unit massively underperformed last year... but I don't want people to do the hard maths.

[Tiger 8,853]

11 minutes ago, logan adams said:

 

This is why I want us to start JF3.

 

In theory that sounds good, but can JF3 do these things like Nick Marshall?

 

- Limit turnovers (doesn't sound good so far)

- Come through in the clutch 9/10 times? (TBD)

- Make the first defender miss 98% of the time? Being fast is not the same as being elusive. (TBD)

- Actually stretch the field vertically with his arm? His A-Day bomb to Marcus Davis was a lollipop he gave to the defensive backs and just got lucky IMO, but it was only 1 throw.

- Make good decisions in the zone read game? (TBD)

- Know when to take off when pressure starts creeping into the pocket? (TBD)

- Able to shake off the mistakes like they never happened? (TBD)

- Be smart with taking hits (TBD)

 

Not everyone can do all of these things. NM was a special and unique blend of talent, football savvy, and skill that we capitalized on by putting him at QB. I guess we will figure out if JF3 possesses these abilities soon enough!

[Timeslider 6 269]

One of Nick's greatest attributes was his coolness under pressure (he had ice water running through those veins) i sense JF III has some of that quality, but needs to develop it better. The other stuff could come through practice and time.

[sevenlee36 1,663]

The closer it gets to game time the more I feel we go with SW. Gus will be conservative and want someone with experience, that he feels will protect the football best. JF will play. I think if we were to open against Mcneese St then JF playing time would go up drastically. I'm thinking Gus goes conservative and JF's amount of snaps will depend on how successful he is during the game.

[War to the Eagle 369]

2 hours ago, Timeslider 6 said:

One of Nick's greatest attributes was his coolness under pressure (he had ice water running through those veins) i sense JF III has some of that quality, but needs to develop it better. The other stuff could come through practice and time.

See I'm not sure about this.  Obviously it's just a small sample size, but Last Chance U did not exactly portray his skills in a phenomenal light.  He got a couple of opportunities early in the season and did not deliver.  With that said, he absolutely brought it the final game when he knew Rhett was in the stands.

[ScottsboroAuburnFan 462]

NM was a beast and all I was saying was he missed a lot of open guys and left a lot of points on the field. He was great and if JF3 can come close he will be the man. Gus will take the few over throws for 100+rush yds a game as long as he takes care of the ball. NM early on missed a lot. But he flat out could ball when pressure was on. His % was good and he missed wide open guys, if he hit those we would have scored a lot more points, cause when he missed they were open for TD a lot. All we need is for JF3 to be 55% and take care of the ball. We can win with 8-11 passes a game again if we can pound it with KP,KJ and JF3. 

[WDEKC 187]

28 minutes ago, ScottsboroAuburnFan said:

NM was a beast and all I was saying was he missed a lot of open guys and left a lot of points on the field. He was great and if JF3 can come close he will be the man. Gus will take the few over throws for 100+rush yds a game as long as he takes care of the ball. NM early on missed a lot. But he flat out could ball when pressure was on. His % was good and he missed wide open guys, if he hit those we would have scored a lot more points, cause when he missed they were open for TD a lot. All we need is for JF3 to be 55% and take care of the ball. We can win with 8-11 passes a game again if we can pound it with KP,KJ and JF3. 

 

I guess I'm just not agreeing that he missed so many open guys. Did he miss a few that could have made some scores even gaudier or changed the outcome? Sure. Most notably not hitting a wide open Ricardo Louis in stride in the 1st half against FSU.

 

I think a lot of people are remembering the missed passes more than some of the fantastic passes he made.And passes that a below average passer just isn't able to make. His 2 minute drill against MSU early in 2013 is not something that a below average passer is able to execute.  

 

I just feel like so many people discredit his passing ability because they saw him as a runner. There aren't many college QBs that can thrive at both the way Marshall was able to and I really wouldn't expect that from JF3. 

 

I think it's unfair to try to compare JF3 to NM in any way. Maybe JF3 can prove to be a capable QB and run the offense, but I don't think it would look much like a NM run Auburn offense.

[ScottsboroAuburnFan 462]

Remember some outstanding catches that most WR would have dropped also. 

[WDEKC 187]

3 minutes ago, ScottsboroAuburnFan said:

Remember some outstanding catches that most WR would have dropped also. 

 

I think it might just be time to agree to disagree on Marshall being a good college passer.

[ScottsboroAuburnFan 462]

I've never said he was bad, he wasn't bad. 

[SumterAubie 3,075]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

Well, an improvement  in other areas, specifically OL and WR, will allow the QBs to improve the performance of the team without necessarily improving themselves.  

 

An improvement on the defensive side of the ball should also improve the performance of the entire offense. Such as forcing turnovers on the bad guy's side of the field and forcing more 3 and outs, thus giving our offense more opportunities per game.

[boisnumber1 2,897]

Below average? Joe Montana never even came close to completing 60% of his passes in any season in college. So what does that make him? NM was not below average in any stretch. He wasnt prolific but to say he is below average is delusional. You may get your wish though on what below average is. It's looking more and more like we aren't gonna get a QB to step up that is even average. None of the three are even in the ballpark compared to NM unfortunately. If they were there would be no competition.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

8 minutes ago, boisnumber1 said:

Below average? Joe Montana never even came close to completing 60% of his passes in any season in college. So what does that make him? NM was not below average in any stretch. He wasnt prolific but to say he is below average is delusional. You may get your wish though on what below average is. It's looking more and more like we aren't gonna get a QB to step up that is even average. None of the three are even in the ballpark compared to NM unfortunately. If they were there would be no competition.

One thing you need to remember is that completion percentage is a useless number when measuring an Auburn QB, because all of those bubble screens are considered passes and count as completions.

 

The truth is, Nick was very good when he was good, but he was very bad when he was bad.  He hit some tremendous passes, but when he missed, he usually missed badly... we're talking "who was he throwing to?" badly. As quarterbacks go, he was not a great passer just because he had no consistency and not enough accuracy to make the tight passes a great QB needs to make.  If he was a rock star passer, he would be playing QB in the NFL right now, instead of DB, because he's about as illusive as they come.

[WDEKC 187]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

One thing you need to remember is that completion percentage is a useless number when measuring an Auburn QB, because all of those bubble screens are considered passes and count as completions.

 

The truth is, Nick was very good when he was good, but he was very bad when he was bad.  He hit some tremendous passes, but when he missed, he usually missed badly... we're talking "who was he throwing to?" badly. As quarterbacks go, he was not a great passer just because he had no consistency and not enough accuracy to make the tight passes a great QB needs to make.  If he was a rock star passer, he would be playing QB in the NFL right now, instead of DB, because he's about as illusive as they come.

There are plenty of pretty accurate college QBs that didn't translate well to the NFL. I think using that as proof that he was a below average passer isn't a very good measurement. He also isn't prototypical size for an NFL QB and I'll be honest, is not a great communicator and/or someone most NFL teams would want as an ideal face of their franchise so it was unlikely for anyone to take a risk on him as a developmental NFL QB even if they thought he had potential.

 

A large amount of teams at both the college and NFL level throw bubble screens at a high rate so I agree comparing Marshall to QBs from other eras doesn't really make a lot of sense. Either way though he was a rather efficient passer, especially in his 2nd season when asked to throw the ball more. I would expect many non AU fans to not realize just how good of a passer he could be at times, but I'm somewhat surprised so many AU fans seem to not respect what he did as a passer. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, WDEKC said:

There are plenty of pretty accurate college QBs that didn't translate well to the NFL. I think using that as proof that he was a below average passer isn't a very good measurement. He also isn't prototypical size for an NFL QB and I'll be honest, is not a great communicator and/or someone most NFL teams would want as an ideal face of their franchise so it was unlikely for anyone to take a risk on him as a developmental NFL QB even if they thought he had potential.

 

A large amount of teams at both the college and NFL level throw bubble screens at a high rate so I agree comparing Marshall to QBs from other eras doesn't really make a lot of sense. Either way though he was a rather efficient passer, especially in his 2nd season when asked to throw the ball more. I would expect many non AU fans to not realize just how good of a passer he could be at times, but I'm somewhat surprised so many AU fans seem to not respect what he did as a passer. 

I firmly believe that, with his allusiveness and knack for protecting the ball, no team would have passed him up as a possible QB if he was consistent in his passing... lack of interview skills not withstanding (speech coaches are a dime a dozen in pro sports). The problem was that, with 2 years under his belt, you never knew if he would put it right on the numbers or 5 feet over their head. If you think about it, his most heralded pass was actually a bad pass that got a very fortunate tip.  Still, he wasn't below average either.  Mississippi State can attest to that.

 

I will also admit, his stature didn't help. He had more balls batted down than the 5 AU QBs before him put together.  Still... if he was consistently accurate, I believe all other shortcomings would have been forgiven and he would be an NFL QB.... maybe not a starter, but in the picture.

[boisnumber1 2,897]

7 hours ago, Tiger said:

NM was a great QB for us. But he was a below average passer. He could throw the ball out of the stadium, but he did leave a lot of points on the board with misfires, and there were entire sections of the field that were off limits for our passing game because he wasn't consistent enough passing short, intermediate passes or throws down the middle of the field. I'm a huge NM fan by the way, just calling it like I see it. I'd give anything for NM to have one more year of eligibility lol

 

Even with his shortcomings in the passing game he was a beast of a QB for us and what we were doing in 2013/2014.

I agree AND I would say if he were in the QB race this season, he would easily be the QB. There would not be a competition. The reason there is a QB competition this season is not because the players are all great players battling it out. It's much the opposite. Can do nothing but take a wait and see approach. 

[AUBwins 10,257]

8 hours ago, Tiger said:

 

In theory that sounds good, but can JF3 do these things like Nick Marshall?

 

- Limit turnovers (doesn't sound good so far)

- Come through in the clutch 9/10 times? (TBD)

- Make the first defender miss 98% of the time? Being fast is not the same as being elusive. (TBD)

- Actually stretch the field vertically with his arm? His A-Day bomb to Marcus Davis was a lollipop he gave to the defensive backs and just got lucky IMO, but it was only 1 throw.

- Make good decisions in the zone read game? (TBD)

- Know when to take off when pressure starts creeping into the pocket? (TBD)

- Able to shake off the mistakes like they never happened? (TBD)

- Be smart with taking hits (TBD)

 

Not everyone can do all of these things. NM was a special and unique blend of talent, football savvy, and skill that we capitalized on by putting him at QB. I guess we will figure out if JF3 possesses these abilities soon enough!

You forgot to add, throw a pass to himself like NM did to extend the drive against MS state. 

[logan adams 333]

10 hours ago, Tiger said:

 

In theory that sounds good, but can JF3 do these things like Nick Marshall?

 

- Limit turnovers (doesn't sound good so far)

- Come through in the clutch 9/10 times? (TBD)

- Make the first defender miss 98% of the time? Being fast is not the same as being elusive. (TBD)

- Actually stretch the field vertically with his arm? His A-Day bomb to Marcus Davis was a lollipop he gave to the defensive backs and just got lucky IMO, but it was only 1 throw.

- Make good decisions in the zone read game? (TBD)

- Know when to take off when pressure starts creeping into the pocket? (TBD)

- Able to shake off the mistakes like they never happened? (TBD)

- Be smart with taking hits (TBD)

 

Not everyone can do all of these things. NM was a special and unique blend of talent, football savvy, and skill that we capitalized on by putting him at QB. I guess we will figure out if JF3 possesses these abilities soon enough!

 

The only way to find out is for him to get on the field. We will see what happens come September 3rd!

[doc4aday 1,887]

Cam was not a prolific passer whatsoever, but was just so great at everything else he did. JF3 is the fastest of the 3 (Cam, NM & JF3) If he can become a marginal passer, he will be an extremely dangerous QB that defenses will dread having to face. I would guess that he would be the fastest QB in the SEC and maybe the country.

[Tiger 8,853]

17 hours ago, AUBwins said:

You forgot to add, throw a pass to himself like NM did to extend the drive against MS state. 

That's just the type of mojo Nick Marshall had. The dude just flat out made plays.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

14 hours ago, doc4aday said:

Cam was not a prolific passer whatsoever, but was just so great at everything else he did. JF3 is the fastest of the 3 (Cam, NM & JF3) If he can become a marginal passer, he will be an extremely dangerous QB that defenses will dread having to face. I would guess that he would be the fastest QB in the SEC and maybe the country.

Fast is useless if you can't get into open field.  IF we have an O-line that can make holes and IF he is illusive enough to get into the secondary, then yes, speed kills, but saying that just being fast makes him a threat is way too simplistic.  I sure hope we get to see him with the ball and some green in front of him.

[boisnumber1 2,897]

14 hours ago, doc4aday said:

Cam was not a prolific passer whatsoever, but was just so great at everything else he did. JF3 is the fastest of the 3 (Cam, NM & JF3) If he can become a marginal passer, he will be an extremely dangerous QB that defenses will dread having to face. I would guess that he would be the fastest QB in the SEC and maybe the country.

There is no comparison to Cam's passing ability. JF3 is not only not in the same ballpark as Cam as far as passing ability, but not even in the same zip code.