To Serve and to Protect

[aubearcat 2,153]

And after re-watching the KK tweet, the officer without the cap screaming about the gun I believe is the one that shot. After watching the first angle this morning, I thought it was the other officer in the cap.

[Strychnine 1,808]

I can't get the video from policeone.com to play jeff but I just watched a different angle from a retweet from KK and I assume it's the same one you've linked. You do hear the one officer screaming "he's got a gun!" and it appears his (the deceased) right hand is at the pocket from where the gun is pulled out after he was shot. Just a terrible gut wrenching situation to watch.

Admittedly, I have only watched the video in Jeff's link and the one on policeone.com. That said, it appeared that they had a largely compliant suspect prior to an officer (from his side, not the one facing him) wrestling him to the ground. After wrestling him to the ground, there were two officers on top of him. They pulled a gun out of his pocket AFTER shooting him. That is the big point to me. I saw absolutely no threat requiring lethal force.

Perhaps there is another angle that changes the situation, but I saw a completely inexcusable shooting in that video. From what I have seen, it seems more reasonable to me that the officer without the cap felt the gun in his pocket while wrestling rather than him reaching for it with intent to shoot them. You can hear one of them yell "get on the ground!" after the first round of shots, where the suspect was already on the ground.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Well, it's almost inevitable that this would come out...

http://gotnews.com/blackliesmatter-altonsterling-dead-beat-dad-not-father/

Legit or not, it still doesn't absolve the cops in this incident.

[AUFAN78 4,130]

Well, it's almost inevitable that this would come out...

http://gotnews.com/b...dad-not-father/

Legit or not, it still doesn't absolve the cops in this incident.

That fact has no bearing on this case.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Well, it's almost inevitable that this would come out...

http://gotnews.com/b...dad-not-father/

Legit or not, it still doesn't absolve the cops in this incident.

That fact has no bearing on this case.

You know it. I know it, but it does conflict greatly w/ the meme that Alton was a " good father " and general all around swell guy.

But one can wonder if his priors had any role in how the officers saw him ?

[aubearcat 2,153]

Stry, if you don't have Twitter I have listened to the video again, and it is very disturbing. This is a brief synopsis of the angle KK posted:

"**** he's got a gun!" Officer continued, "Gun!" And further says, "Hey bro, you fu*king move, I swear to God!" He then says, "He's going for the gun, s***!" and then you here the shots and see the officer roll to the front of the car and away from the deceased. There was a great deal of movement but was unclear if he reached in and grabbed the gun. Very, very, graphic and gut wrenching video.

[alexava 6,974]

There is no telling at this point, this link might be BS. It also could be exactly the motivation for what appeared to me to be a hit. It would be a stretch but killing a man like that is worthy of looking at everything. As far as the owed child support, I know folks that are nice friendly people fun to be around but completely worthless fathers who continue to spread their seed with no regard for the children's well being. Not a loss on society but not deserving of execution. Child molester maybe different but I still don't believe it.

[Strychnine 1,808]

Stry, if you don't have Twitter I have listened to the video again, and it is very disturbing. This is a brief synopsis of the angle KK posted:

"**** he's got a gun!" Officer continued, "Gun!" And further says, "Hey bro, you fu*king move, I swear to God!" He then says, "He's going for the gun, s***!" and then you here the shots and see the officer roll to the front of the car and away from the deceased. There was a great deal of movement but was unclear if he reached in and grabbed the gun. Very, very, graphic and gut wrenching video.

I boycott Twitter with ardent passion.

I heard the chatter. My problem with the whole scenario is that all videos I've seen start with a suspect that has his left arm extended outward, as if he were obeying the commands of the officer with the hat (or at least cooperating with him) that is facing him directly. The officer with the hat seemed like his goal was to de-escalate the situation, and the other officer thought warrior cop was the way to go, forcing the officer with the hat to back his play. Watch officer with the hat's movements, it all seems reluctant, and reluctantly reactive.

I got the impression that if officer with the hat had responded to this call solo, there probably would not have been a shooting. I know I've personally told you that I disagree with officers having to patrol solo, but I think in this case the situation was likely escalated unnecessarily by the other officer.

I've encountered a similar mentality in officers that I've worked with. They are basically taught in training that yelling (IE "command voice") is the proper response to any remotely non-compliant suspect or situation. In the real world, people do not always respond well to being yelled at or tackled, right or wrong. The good officers are the ones that develop a spidey-sense of when to be firm and when to de-escalate. I wish there were a good training program to teach that.

[aubearcat 2,153]

Stry, if you don't have Twitter I have listened to the video again, and it is very disturbing. This is a brief synopsis of the angle KK posted:

"**** he's got a gun!" Officer continued, "Gun!" And further says, "Hey bro, you fu*king move, I swear to God!" He then says, "He's going for the gun, s***!" and then you here the shots and see the officer roll to the front of the car and away from the deceased. There was a great deal of movement but was unclear if he reached in and grabbed the gun. Very, very, graphic and gut wrenching video.

I boycott Twitter with ardent passion.

I heard the chatter. My problem with the whole scenario is that all videos I've seen start with a suspect that has his left arm extended outward, as if he were obeying the commands of the officer with the hat (or at least cooperating with him) that is facing him directly. The officer with the hat seemed like his goal was to de-escalate the situation, and the other officer thought warrior cop was the way to go, forcing the officer with the hat to back his play. Watch officer with the hat's movements, it all seems reluctant, and reluctantly reactive.

I got the impression that if officer with the hat had responded to this call solo, there probably would not have been a shooting. I know I've personally told you that I disagree with officers having to patrol solo, but I think in this case the situation was likely escalated unnecessarily by the other officer.

I've encountered a similar mentality in officers that I've worked with. They are basically taught in training that yelling (IE "command voice") is the proper response to any remotely non-compliant suspect or situation. In the real world, people do not always respond well to being yelled at or tackled, right or wrong. The good officers are the ones that develop a spidey-sense of when to be firm and when to de-escalate. I wish there were a good training program to teach that.

I've been on those calls when it was calm and officer x shows up and it starts to get chaotic. At that point though, you must take an alpha personality with your backup to keep the call peaceful.

[Strychnine 1,808]

Stry, if you don't have Twitter I have listened to the video again, and it is very disturbing. This is a brief synopsis of the angle KK posted:

"**** he's got a gun!" Officer continued, "Gun!" And further says, "Hey bro, you fu*king move, I swear to God!" He then says, "He's going for the gun, s***!" and then you here the shots and see the officer roll to the front of the car and away from the deceased. There was a great deal of movement but was unclear if he reached in and grabbed the gun. Very, very, graphic and gut wrenching video.

I boycott Twitter with ardent passion.

I heard the chatter. My problem with the whole scenario is that all videos I've seen start with a suspect that has his left arm extended outward, as if he were obeying the commands of the officer with the hat (or at least cooperating with him) that is facing him directly. The officer with the hat seemed like his goal was to de-escalate the situation, and the other officer thought warrior cop was the way to go, forcing the officer with the hat to back his play. Watch officer with the hat's movements, it all seems reluctant, and reluctantly reactive.

I got the impression that if officer with the hat had responded to this call solo, there probably would not have been a shooting. I know I've personally told you that I disagree with officers having to patrol solo, but I think in this case the situation was likely escalated unnecessarily by the other officer.

I've encountered a similar mentality in officers that I've worked with. They are basically taught in training that yelling (IE "command voice") is the proper response to any remotely non-compliant suspect or situation. In the real world, people do not always respond well to being yelled at or tackled, right or wrong. The good officers are the ones that develop a spidey-sense of when to be firm and when to de-escalate. I wish there were a good training program to teach that.

I've been on those calls when it was calm and officer x shows up and it starts to get chaotic. At that point though, you must take an alpha personality with your backup to keep the call peaceful.

In my opinion, that is an important thing that makes you a good officer.

[alexava 6,974]

Stry, if you don't have Twitter I have listened to the video again, and it is very disturbing. This is a brief synopsis of the angle KK posted:

"**** he's got a gun!" Officer continued, "Gun!" And further says, "Hey bro, you fu*king move, I swear to God!" He then says, "He's going for the gun, s***!" and then you here the shots and see the officer roll to the front of the car and away from the deceased. There was a great deal of movement but was unclear if he reached in and grabbed the gun. Very, very, graphic and gut wrenching video.

I boycott Twitter with ardent passion.

I heard the chatter. My problem with the whole scenario is that all videos I've seen start with a suspect that has his left arm extended outward, as if he were obeying the commands of the officer with the hat (or at least cooperating with him) that is facing him directly. The officer with the hat seemed like his goal was to de-escalate the situation, and the other officer thought warrior cop was the way to go, forcing the officer with the hat to back his play. Watch officer with the hat's movements, it all seems reluctant, and reluctantly reactive.

I got the impression that if officer with the hat had responded to this call solo, there probably would not have been a shooting. I know I've personally told you that I disagree with officers having to patrol solo, but I think in this case the situation was likely escalated unnecessarily by the other officer.

I've encountered a similar mentality in officers that I've worked with. They are basically taught in training that yelling (IE "command voice") is the proper response to any remotely non-compliant suspect or situation. In the real world, people do not always respond well to being yelled at or tackled, right or wrong. The good officers are the ones that develop a spidey-sense of when to be firm and when to de-escalate. I wish there were a good training program to teach that.

I've been on those calls when it was calm and officer x shows up and it starts to get chaotic. At that point though, you must take an alpha personality with your backup to keep the call peaceful.

In my opinion, that is an important thing that makes you a good officer.

good cop/ dumb, overeactive cop is far worse than just one good cop. Sometimes less is more I guess. The stress of doing the right thing safely is enough to handle. Having to also keep a partner with too much John Wayne in him in check would be too much for me.

[cole256 17,085]

It's murder..don't see how it's not. It's also saddening that b/c of a few officers like this that the good ones are getting a ton of flack. I'm a black man and been through all the unnecessary regular stuff that comes with being so. I've never really fully trusted the police and avoid them as much as possible but i still respect them if i do encounter them. I just try to make it short and sweet as possible and keep my cool. I admit it's hard to do at times b/c you just want to go about your business and you have someone questioning you when you're doing nothing like any other regular citizen.

And it's not just an attack on blacks these days with cops b/c whites are also seeing this with power trip cops who can now use the defense of i felt threaten to justify their uncalled actions. And it's certainly not just white cops doing it b/c i've ran into a couple bad black cops who i wish i could smack the h3ll out of. Sometimes they're the worst ones in regards to encountering their own race b/c they have a badge to hide behind.

I feel bad for this family. The guy had been in trouble before but that doesn't mean he was wrong in this situation. It's just sad when i clearly see murder and a cop can get away with it and then go read articles where they're putting parents in jail for spanking their kids. It's crazy! One lady just had charges dropped on her b/c she whooped her kids b/c she found out they had stole from someone and she was put in jail for it. They've been good kids up until that point and she was furious and did something about it; as she should. She made it known she in no way raised them like that and works very hard to support her family. We need more parents like that but the law would rather lock them up. If that was my mother she'd kill me herself...along with rest of the elders in my neighborhood.

We have so many issues to try to fix in this country with violence. We need to focus on them ALL. I certainly do my part with my own kids and mentoring other young black men b/c i want to help with black on black crime. There's also rise in domestic violence against women. At the same time murder is murder (speaking only on this situation). It's sad and i pray for the family.

I tried to explain this...deaf ears

[aujeff11 6,243]

Stry, if you don't have Twitter I have listened to the video again, and it is very disturbing. This is a brief synopsis of the angle KK posted:

"**** he's got a gun!" Officer continued, "Gun!" And further says, "Hey bro, you fu*king move, I swear to God!" He then says, "He's going for the gun, s***!" and then you here the shots and see the officer roll to the front of the car and away from the deceased. There was a great deal of movement but was unclear if he reached in and grabbed the gun. Very, very, graphic and gut wrenching video.

I boycott Twitter with ardent passion.

I heard the chatter. My problem with the whole scenario is that all videos I've seen start with a suspect that has his left arm extended outward, as if he were obeying the commands of the officer with the hat (or at least cooperating with him) that is facing him directly. The officer with the hat seemed like his goal was to de-escalate the situation, and the other officer thought warrior cop was the way to go, forcing the officer with the hat to back his play. Watch officer with the hat's movements, it all seems reluctant, and reluctantly reactive.

I got the impression that if officer with the hat had responded to this call solo, there probably would not have been a shooting. I know I've personally told you that I disagree with officers having to patrol solo, but I think in this case the situation was likely escalated unnecessarily by the other officer.

I've encountered a similar mentality in officers that I've worked with. They are basically taught in training that yelling (IE "command voice") is the proper response to any remotely non-compliant suspect or situation. In the real world, people do not always respond well to being yelled at or tackled, right or wrong. The good officers are the ones that develop a spidey-sense of when to be firm and when to de-escalate. I wish there were a good training program to teach that.

Well said. There is no training program that will teach the intangibles of a good cop and his timely instincts but if you were their mentor, I'm sure they would be alright. Maybe what they also need is a dose of humanity injected into them as well. They are dealing with fathers and husbands, not just drivers license numbers and social security numbers. Those police officers wouldn't want their partner getting needlessly thrown around like a rag doll, so it's not ok for them to do it to others.

[telling tiger 156]

No criminal record. A supervisor at a school cafeteria. Reaching for his ID in his pocket, presumably after being told to do so.....though not recorded.....

[channonc 466]

Apparently he was legal able to carry and told the cop he had a gun. When he reached for his ID and registration as instructed, he was shot.

Another senseless, cold blooded killing.

[telling tiger 156]

Inexcusable.............What the hell is wrong with some people in this country?

Sickening and if I understood a report correctly, a four year old girl was in the back seat............

Did you get to see anyone executed at 4 years old?

Yeah, I didn't either.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Don't reach for anything is the lesson, I guess.

Ridiculous

[cole256 17,085]

I just saying I should feel safe around police.

[cole256 17,085]

He better not get off. Of all the high profile cases of questionable killings of African Americans, only the policeman in South Carolina faced disciplinary action. And a majority of his was paid leave

[telling tiger 156]

When they tell you to give them your ID, how do you not reach for anything?

You can even TELL THEM, you are carrying, have a conceal carry permit , are getting your ID and get killed.....

But let me guess....no reason for AF/AM's to feel threatened by the people they PAY TAXES FOR to protect them.....

[maxwere 82]

http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-674-when-the-police-pull-you-over/

This is tragic. But I'm detached and encouraged. Smartphone > gun. Encouraging to see citizens act accordingly. These guys won't escape justice.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Having not seen the MN video, I have an idea of what may have happened. I'll check this out later on, but it sounded like the officer asked the driver for his license and registration and then as he was doing that the driver admitted/confessed to having a carry permit. The officer heard this & saw the driver reaching and in his head the cop was thinking gun! And then just overreacted. It's clear he was overwhelmed with the situation, by the way the cop reacted afterwards. As I said I've not seen this, just only heard clips of audio.

[Strychnine 1,808]

When an individual in the vehicle you have pulled over informs you that they have a firearm and a carry permit, that should immediately tell any officer that they are most likely not in any danger whatsoever. In a state like Minnesota, where one must only inform an officer if asked, an officer should consider volunteering that information to be a courtesy and act accordingly.

[channonc 466]

When an individual in the vehicle you have pulled over informs you that they have a firearm and a carry permit, that should immediately tell any officer that they are most likely not in any danger whatsoever. In a state like Minnesota, where one must only inform an officer if asked, an officer should consider volunteering that information to be a courtesy and act accordingly.

This. He was following the laws that governed his carry permit.

CNN's interview of the victim's parents. Please watch this, it is simply heartbreaking. (Warning, it's about 23 minutes)

[Strychnine 1,808]

When an individual in the vehicle you have pulled over informs you that they have a firearm and a carry permit, that should immediately tell any officer that they are most likely not in any danger whatsoever. In a state like Minnesota, where one must only inform an officer if asked, an officer should consider volunteering that information to be a courtesy and act accordingly.

This. He was following the laws that governed his carry permit.

CNN's interview of the victim's parents. Please watch this, it is simply heartbreaking. (Warning, it's about 23 minutes)

I have not looked into it much, so I do not know if the officer actually asked him. By law, he was only required to produce his carry permit or inform the officer he had a firearm if asked. If he volunteered that information in advance, he was doing more than the law required and making an effort to do the right thing and put the officer at ease.

The law is similar here in Georgia, and I generally inform an officer when they first make contact with me even though I'm not required to. Sometimes they want to secure the weapon, and sometimes they do not bother. None have ever reacted by drawing their weapon when I reached for my wallet after they ask for my license and carry permit. I also frequently have an AK-47 on the back seat. That has led to some interesting conversations with officers.