Insurers warn losses from ObamaCare are unsustainable

[AuburnNTexas 7,300]

What should happen to the uninsured if they can't afford coverage?

What happened before Obamacare they went to emergency room and government or hospital picked up the tab. If hospital picked up the tab they passed it on to others who did pay. That was not a good system and Obamacare was not a good system. Unlike many other conservatives I believe Obama and the democrats thought they were doing good. But their total lack of understanding of the healthcare system in this country, lack of understanding of basic economic principals and on top of that they would not allow discussion on aspects of the plan so good ideas from both within their own party and the republican party were totally ignored and you got Obamacare. It has had issues from day 1. First with a poorly conceived and implemented computer system to a basic flaw in realizing that many of the uninsured would need more medical help hence higher costs. These higher costs could eventually cause this system to collapse on its own.

The Republicans are not blameless Their total failure to address healthcare when they were in charge helped create the situation where Obamacare came about. We have some huge issues in this country a failed tax system, Huge deficit, Entitlement programs that are facing insolvency, failed immigration system, healthcare, education etc. These are all long standing issues that we were talking about before Ronald Reagan was president. We have done a few bandaid fixes but neither side when they were in a position to address the issues have even brought a plan up to be voted on for any of these issues.

We have a do nothing government. I think that is why on both the left and the right we see people voting out of frustration for flawed candidates like Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.

Tax reform is a perfect example we have a Republican House and Senate and economic policy comes out of the House. Almost every Republican congressman has talked about getting rid of Tax loopholes for corporations and the rich and some type of flat tax many of their Democratic opponents agree with getting rid of the loopholes also at least that is what they say when running for office. I have yet to see a bill get voted on in the House that really did comprehensive adjustment of out tax codes. At least pass this type of bill in the House and let the Senate vote on it or filibuster it so you know where people stand. I am tired of talk of reform be it on Healthcare, taxes, etc and the party in power in the House not even putting up a bill for a vote.

[TitanTiger 21,064]

I think you're hitting on a key point. There's this notion that Obamacare or some single-payer system takes us from a situation where I paid for my own healthcare but no one else's to one where now I'm being forced to pay for someone else to have healthcare too. But in reality, I was paying for their healthcare back then too...in the form of higher premiums and higher cash prices if I chose not to have insurance. And it was the most expensive kind of care too...ER/emergency care. Indigent patients would show up and it was a matter of living and dying and they'd get treated because we aren't animals. To make up the cost of treating people who couldn't pay, they charge all the paying customers more.

It would have been far cheaper if I'd been paying for preventative care that didn't allow so many conditions and diseases to progress to where it was such a dire need and more advanced and expensive treatments were needed.

There's just no good reason for this in a country like the US. I could understand if we were some South American backwater, but we aren't. Yet the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in this country is medical bills. Inexcusable and honestly, just stupid.

[AFTiger 282]

I think you're hitting on a key point. There's this notion that Obamacare or some single-payer system takes us from a situation where I paid for my own healthcare but no one else's to one where now I'm being forced to pay for someone else to have healthcare too. But in reality, I was paying for their healthcare back then too...in the form of higher premiums and higher cash prices if I chose not to have insurance. And it was the most expensive kind of care too...ER/emergency care. Indigent patients would show up and it was a matter of living and dying and they'd get treated because we aren't animals. To make up the cost of treating people who couldn't pay, they charge all the paying customers more.

It would have been far cheaper if I'd been paying for preventative care that didn't allow so many conditions and diseases to progress to where it was such a dire need and more advanced and expensive treatments were needed.

There's just no good reason for this in a country like the US. I could understand if we were some South American backwater, but we aren't. Yet the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in this country is medical bills. Inexcusable and honestly, just stupid.

Here is a good idea. Let's create a system of mandatory insurance but structure it in a way that puts the premium price out of reach of unsubsidized subscribers and makes the deductibles so high that nobody can afford to use their unaffordable insurance. Let's subsidize the low income and shift the cost to the middle class and insurance companies. Let's make the compensation to doctors so low that they don't want to serve Medicare and Medicaid patients without supplemental insurance.

Let's brag about how we have increased the number of those covered by insurance but ignore those who can't get healthcare.

Ben Stein made a great observation:

“Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured…but not everyone must prove they are a citizen. And now, any of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.”

I have always felt that Obamacare was designed to create such chaos in our healthcare system that the federal government would have to save.

[maxwere 82]

ACA is toast. I say this as an actuary who's priced group med. It will collapse the third party system in the next few years. So, whats next? We currently have a single payer system on line here in the US (VA). Is that the next step?

(Conservatives) Buy and read (in particular the section: How We Got Here): http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Prescription-Surviving-Sick-Sinkhole/dp/1939563097/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461186171&sr=8-1&keywords=primal+prescription

The socialist part of the system is ~70 years old (ACA is just icing). It's important to understand the full breadth of regulatory history in medicine if you're to make a salient argument. Take your argument to the providers (doctors). Once they see the light, they won't try to change the system from the inside.

[Mims44 1,969]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

[channonc 466]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

Mostly it's because the ACA mandated that certain people now have coverage who couldn't get an insurer to cover them before, those with pre-existing conditions being the biggest group. Also, lifetime maximums were eliminated, which also means that those with high cost conditions no longer have a cap in the services they get. These are the two biggest cost increases from what I understand. There could be more.

In otherwords, you now have a higher number of people in your shared pool, and a higher number of sicker people. This automatically makes costs to cover them go up. Some of these people were either completely forgoing treatment all together, or getting a patchwork of treatments to keep them stringing along. Now that there is access to preventative care for this group and regular treatment for known medical issues, this increases the cost.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

Mostly it's because the ACA mandated that certain people now have coverage who couldn't get an insurer to cover them before, those with pre-existing conditions being the biggest group. Also, lifetime maximums were eliminated, which also means that those with high cost conditions no longer have a cap in the services they get. These are the two biggest cost increases from what I understand. There could be more.

In otherwords, you now have a higher number of people in your shared pool, and a higher number of sicker people. This automatically makes costs to cover them go up. Some of these people were either completely forgoing treatment all together, or getting a patchwork of treatments to keep them stringing along. Now that there is access to preventative care for this group and regular treatment for known medical issues, this increases the cost.

Everyone who was honest TOLD us this would happen

Obama wasn't, of course. He mocked anyone who tried to tell the truth. Then, when Jonathan Gruber came out and ADMITTED they lied, specifically because telling the truth would lead to the ACA being defeated, no one gave a damn.

Too bad. Too late. You're F'd, America.

Deal with it.

[channonc 466]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

Mostly it's because the ACA mandated that certain people now have coverage who couldn't get an insurer to cover them before, those with pre-existing conditions being the biggest group. Also, lifetime maximums were eliminated, which also means that those with high cost conditions no longer have a cap in the services they get. These are the two biggest cost increases from what I understand. There could be more.

In otherwords, you now have a higher number of people in your shared pool, and a higher number of sicker people. This automatically makes costs to cover them go up. Some of these people were either completely forgoing treatment all together, or getting a patchwork of treatments to keep them stringing along. Now that there is access to preventative care for this group and regular treatment for known medical issues, this increases the cost.

Everyone who was honest TOLD us this would happen

Obama wasn't, of course. He mocked anyone who tried to tell the truth. Then, when Jonathan Gruber came out and ADMITTED they lied, specifically because telling the truth would lead to the ACA being defeated, no one gave a damn.

Too bad. Too late. You're F'd, America.

Deal with it.

And enter Raptor, still unhinged about all things Obama.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

Mostly it's because the ACA mandated that certain people now have coverage who couldn't get an insurer to cover them before, those with pre-existing conditions being the biggest group. Also, lifetime maximums were eliminated, which also means that those with high cost conditions no longer have a cap in the services they get. These are the two biggest cost increases from what I understand. There could be more.

In otherwords, you now have a higher number of people in your shared pool, and a higher number of sicker people. This automatically makes costs to cover them go up. Some of these people were either completely forgoing treatment all together, or getting a patchwork of treatments to keep them stringing along. Now that there is access to preventative care for this group and regular treatment for known medical issues, this increases the cost.

Everyone who was honest TOLD us this would happen

Obama wasn't, of course. He mocked anyone who tried to tell the truth. Then, when Jonathan Gruber came out and ADMITTED they lied, specifically because telling the truth would lead to the ACA being defeated, no one gave a damn.

Too bad. Too late. You're F'd, America.

Deal with it.

And enter Raptor, still unhinged about all things Obama.

Only things which needlessly complicate and negatively impact my life, hell yes.

[cooltigger21 0]

These premium increases were known from the start. What was supposed to happen was the insurance companies would get blamed for this,. The people were supposed to be outraged and demand the government come riding to the rescue.

[Mims44 1,969]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

Mostly it's because the ACA mandated that certain people now have coverage who couldn't get an insurer to cover them before, those with pre-existing conditions being the biggest group. Also, lifetime maximums were eliminated, which also means that those with high cost conditions no longer have a cap in the services they get. These are the two biggest cost increases from what I understand. There could be more.

In otherwords, you now have a higher number of people in your shared pool, and a higher number of sicker people. This automatically makes costs to cover them go up. Some of these people were either completely forgoing treatment all together, or getting a patchwork of treatments to keep them stringing along. Now that there is access to preventative care for this group and regular treatment for known medical issues, this increases the cost.

Preexisting conditions should subside right? People with conditions with no insurance might have been high at the start, but years later that should not be a factor.

And I was not aware of lifetime maximums, were people before that were insured told to eff off after so many trips to the hospital?

[TitanTiger 21,064]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

Mostly it's because the ACA mandated that certain people now have coverage who couldn't get an insurer to cover them before, those with pre-existing conditions being the biggest group. Also, lifetime maximums were eliminated, which also means that those with high cost conditions no longer have a cap in the services they get. These are the two biggest cost increases from what I understand. There could be more.

In otherwords, you now have a higher number of people in your shared pool, and a higher number of sicker people. This automatically makes costs to cover them go up. Some of these people were either completely forgoing treatment all together, or getting a patchwork of treatments to keep them stringing along. Now that there is access to preventative care for this group and regular treatment for known medical issues, this increases the cost.

Preexisting conditions should subside right? People with conditions with no insurance might have been high at the start, but years later that should not be a factor.

And I was not aware of lifetime maximums, were people before that were insured told to eff off after so many trips to the hospital?

They might have had a lifetime maximum of $1 million or whatever. Plus there were yearly maximums that many plans had. Once they hit that cap, you were paying out of pocket the rest of the way.

[Mims44 1,969]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

Mostly it's because the ACA mandated that certain people now have coverage who couldn't get an insurer to cover them before, those with pre-existing conditions being the biggest group. Also, lifetime maximums were eliminated, which also means that those with high cost conditions no longer have a cap in the services they get. These are the two biggest cost increases from what I understand. There could be more.

In otherwords, you now have a higher number of people in your shared pool, and a higher number of sicker people. This automatically makes costs to cover them go up. Some of these people were either completely forgoing treatment all together, or getting a patchwork of treatments to keep them stringing along. Now that there is access to preventative care for this group and regular treatment for known medical issues, this increases the cost.

Preexisting conditions should subside right? People with conditions with no insurance might have been high at the start, but years later that should not be a factor.

And I was not aware of lifetime maximums, were people before that were insured told to eff off after so many trips to the hospital?

They might have had a lifetime maximum of $1 million or whatever. Plus there were yearly maximums that many plans had. Once they hit that cap, you were paying out of pocket the rest of the way.

ahh ok, so the people feeling the brunt of that were like heart surgery patients? knee/hip patients?

I feel like I'm woefully unaware on this subject due to my good health and the VA babying me

[TitanTiger 21,064]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

Mostly it's because the ACA mandated that certain people now have coverage who couldn't get an insurer to cover them before, those with pre-existing conditions being the biggest group. Also, lifetime maximums were eliminated, which also means that those with high cost conditions no longer have a cap in the services they get. These are the two biggest cost increases from what I understand. There could be more.

In otherwords, you now have a higher number of people in your shared pool, and a higher number of sicker people. This automatically makes costs to cover them go up. Some of these people were either completely forgoing treatment all together, or getting a patchwork of treatments to keep them stringing along. Now that there is access to preventative care for this group and regular treatment for known medical issues, this increases the cost.

Preexisting conditions should subside right? People with conditions with no insurance might have been high at the start, but years later that should not be a factor.

And I was not aware of lifetime maximums, were people before that were insured told to eff off after so many trips to the hospital?

They might have had a lifetime maximum of $1 million or whatever. Plus there were yearly maximums that many plans had. Once they hit that cap, you were paying out of pocket the rest of the way.

ahh ok, so the people feeling the brunt of that were like heart surgery patients? knee/hip patients?

I feel like I'm woefully unaware on this subject due to my good health and the VA babying me

Anyone with a serious or chronic illness. Heart problems, kidney failures, cancer, etc.

[channonc 466]

Think I posted this last time an Obamacare argument was started... and I still didn't understand.

I get that Obamacare has caused rates to rise, I've experienced it. What I don't get is WHY they caused rates to rise.

What part of Obama care caused my insurer to say "Ok Mims, we now need you to pay double what you were before." ...because when I ask them they just say "Obamacare" When I asked HR and the Board they simply said "Obamacare"

If free healthcare is being given out, then shouldn't taxes to cover it go up? and not a private insurers monthly bill to it's members?

Mostly it's because the ACA mandated that certain people now have coverage who couldn't get an insurer to cover them before, those with pre-existing conditions being the biggest group. Also, lifetime maximums were eliminated, which also means that those with high cost conditions no longer have a cap in the services they get. These are the two biggest cost increases from what I understand. There could be more.

In otherwords, you now have a higher number of people in your shared pool, and a higher number of sicker people. This automatically makes costs to cover them go up. Some of these people were either completely forgoing treatment all together, or getting a patchwork of treatments to keep them stringing along. Now that there is access to preventative care for this group and regular treatment for known medical issues, this increases the cost.

Preexisting conditions should subside right? People with conditions with no insurance might have been high at the start, but years later that should not be a factor.

And I was not aware of lifetime maximums, were people before that were insured told to eff off after so many trips to the hospital?

They might have had a lifetime maximum of $1 million or whatever. Plus there were yearly maximums that many plans had. Once they hit that cap, you were paying out of pocket the rest of the way.

ahh ok, so the people feeling the brunt of that were like heart surgery patients? knee/hip patients?

I feel like I'm woefully unaware on this subject due to my good health and the VA babying me

Anyone with a serious or chronic illness. Heart problems, kidney failures, cancer, etc.

I would also add severe cases of diabetes, people who have had transplants, blood conditions. This list goes on.

Here's a Washington Post article from 2008 which highlights some of the people who were hitting these lifetime maximums.