Insurers warn losses from ObamaCare are unsustainable

[AURaptor 1,137]

It's not just me . Many others have it worse. Hell, the ENTIRE THREAD IS EVIDENCE OF THAT !! Spare me this fairy tale about 'across the board ' crap.

ACA is unsustainable ! How much more Fing evidence do you need ?

[TitanTiger 21,064]

And you're trying to trip me up w/ the inane questions about what to do. It's not my problem. I'm not in the HC industry. All I know the ACA MUST be repealed, 100%, and then start over.

If you want to push to ditch the current system and expect people to take your view seriously, then part of that is having some notion of what you'll do better. A big part of the ACA was to get a whole lot more people covered. If your plan can't do at least as well in that regard, if not better, then you're just belching mindless ideological drivel instead of proposing solutions.

Portability is one thing I know is needed. But Insurance companies fought that. PSA's are another idea which needs to be expanded. But as for what to do ? No idea. Except stop taking MY money to pay for votes by giving others healthcare.

To have true nationwide portability, you'd have to have a federal override of all the various state regulations and laws on health care. Because one reason insurance companies do business in some states and not others is because of the patchwork of requirements from state to state Not a very "small gov't" thing to do. The other issue is the amount of effort it takes to put together a network of doctors and hospitals and such to negotiate better rates with. Not all insurance companies can ramp up enough to accomplish that nationwide. Finally, you'd be making the federal government force insurance companies to do business in states whether they want to or not. Another thing that's not very "conservative."

But even if all these things would somehow magically work, the GOP had years to make a serious push for such solutions and didn't do jack squat. You can blame Obama and the Dems all you want, but save some of that venom for your party of choice for proposing nothing serious when they had the chance.

[TitanTiger 21,064]

It's not just me . Many others have it worse. Hell, the ENTIRE THREAD IS EVIDENCE OF THAT !! Spare me this fairy tale about 'across the board ' crap.

"Spare me actual data, real numbers, and facts and let me believe that my experience is analogous to the rest of the country!"

[AURaptor 1,137]

So, because the GOP didn't do anything, we're suppose to slide our country into socialism?

******* great.

It's not just me . Many others have it worse. Hell, the ENTIRE THREAD IS EVIDENCE OF THAT !! Spare me this fairy tale about 'across the board ' crap.

"Spare me actual data, real numbers, and facts and let me believe that my experience is analogous to the rest of the country!"

Those aren't the actual facts and numbers.

[TitanTiger 21,064]

So, because the GOP didn't do anything, we're suppose to slide our country into socialism?

No. It was simply a correction to your mindless rant earlier about how this was all the Dems fault. It's everyone's fault up there. The GOP had the power to fix this with proposals more to your liking and did nothing. They opened the door for this.

Those aren't the actual facts and numbers.

"Those aren't the actual facts and numbers that I like."

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Normally I would never post in this type thread and what your saying is all true but the government has no money except to keep printing it. How in the heck are we going to pay for single payer in a country of over 320 million. I'm old so I not as affected as some of the younger folks. Think what it may be like 20 years from now. If I was 25 I would be scared #$@^%$

If you remove the added costs that represent the insurer's overhead and profit, the raw cost for medical services should drop significantly. Our cost as individuals should go down.

[bigbird 60,926]

My son has hemophilia B with inhibitors a genetic bleeding disorder. It was a spontaneous mutation the 3rd day after conception that sealed his fate. We spend 1-2 million a month on medication. Before ACA, we had to have Medicaid in order to afford his medication. That meant my wife (two degrees, 1 economics and a marketing) couldn't work and I became a teacher and coach(Molecular Biology and organic chemistry). we made too much to qualify if not. In fact I had to decline coaching stipends in order to remain under the Medicaid threshold. Since the ACA, he is now covered with my insurance. Premiums suck and we had a $13,000 deductable, but thankfully, because of ACA, there is no longer lifetime maxes nor pre-existing conditions. I don't think the govt should mandate if people have or don't have Ins...that's a person's right to gamble. However, I am thankful for other aspects of it.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

We have many problems with the current ACA and the way it was in the past. Single payer may not be the answer because it will be extremely expensive and there is no preventative health care. The AMA and Trial Lawyers and others will fight with big money to prevent single payer because it will cost them big bucks....health care will be metered out. Can all of our problems be fixed? Yes but it takes a calmer approach and has to make sense. We will need to change some laws especially with the lawsuits, AMA and states will have to weed out their bad doctors...they know they have them. profit margins will have to be reduced and more people will have to participate in preventative medicine.

As far as letting people die, I don't think that has to come to that unless we have scenarios where we have people who directly don't do anything to improve their health...by that I mean if they are very costly for health care and there are ways they could help those conditions but decide not to then why should others be forced to pay for their care. I am not talking about those who have no choice i.e. Birds son's case and others like those.

We currently and have had problems in the past because of lobby groups paying the pols to pass favorable laws for them and that has to stop in order to make health care more affordable for all. We also have to have an admin that will go after the pay for not making generics by some companies (yes that is currently happening, settlements of lawsuits that allow the main drug maker to continue to make the high cost stuff while the others who tend to make generics don't for a few years).

We have to stop the caps and people should be able to get insurance if we stay the insurance route, if we go to single payer then the gov needs to keep the cost down. Currently there is billions in medicare and medicaid fraud that is caught a year (so double or more that fraud because there isn't that many people who are assigned to hunt that fraud down in the gov) This could be easily overcome by better leverage of technology...but then again we are looking at the gov ....who by the way decided to go with the electronic medical templates designed by the administrations political friend who is now awash in cash because you have to use their system or pay a license fee to use them...

SOrry for the long rant but if civil people put a plan together we could get this done either way but have to do sensible reform.

[cptau 169]

In order to be passed the ACA was designed to keep the private health insurance companies in the game while allowing no real competition across states lines, tort reform, or addressing the big cost problem, the high cost of pharmaceuticals. ACA is doomed to fail, but to correct the problems and or create a single payer system the government will have to take on the insurance companies, trial attorneys and the pharmaceutical companies.

Even if the US goes to a single payer government health insurance system, it will not be true single payer. Canada's Provinces provide Medicare coverage for everyone, but only to a certain level. Individuals have to pay out of pocket or purchase private insurance to cover the rest of the uncovered charges.

Medicare for the 65+ people in the US works similarly. If you are on Medicare you have to pay around $110 month as a premium even though you have paid for Medicare insurance during your working days. Medicare also has deductibles that you have to pay out of pocket or you have to purchase your own supplemental private health insurance to cover them.

A single payer system in the US for those under 65 would look a lot like Medicare. Government coverage supported by increased taxes will provide a certain level of coverage. For the rest of the cost you'll pay out of pocket or buy supplemental private insurance.

[AFTiger 282]

What should happen to the uninsured if they can't afford coverage?

What should happen to the insured if they can't afford the cost of the deductible?

[icanthearyou 4,468]

So, because the GOP didn't do anything, we're suppose to slide our country into socialism?

******* great.

It's not just me . Many others have it worse. Hell, the ENTIRE THREAD IS EVIDENCE OF THAT !! Spare me this fairy tale about 'across the board ' crap.

"Spare me actual data, real numbers, and facts and let me believe that my experience is analogous to the rest of the country!"

Those aren't the actual facts and numbers.

Ideology over humanity?

Does the current healthcare system look like capitalism, a "free market"?

Do the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, the AMA encourage competition or stifle competition? Do these institutions conspire with government? Do these institutions have any social responsibilities? Do any of us?

In the modern era, has there not always been a socialistic element to the healthcare system? Do the healthy not pay a disproportionately more than than those who are ill?

Is there any instance in which someone without insurance should receive major medical treatment? Why or, why not?

[AURaptor 1,137]

Free market > than govt regulation

Always

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Free market > than govt regulation

Always

You are in favor of removing all regulations related to healthcare? No FDA? No CDC? No licensing requirements? No regulation, no standards at the federal or state level?

[AFTiger 282]

Is healthcare a right or a service?

Are doctor groups private businesses?

[AURaptor 1,137]

Free market > than govt regulation

Always

You are in favor of removing all regulations related to healthcare? No FDA? No CDC? No licensing requirements? No regulation, no standards at the federal or state level?

Zero government! Buyer beware!

Argumentum absurdum

I'm suggesting there needs to be only minimal government oversight, while you seem to think that there has to be either hyper micromanagement or nothing at all.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Is healthcare a right or a service?

Are doctor groups private businesses?

I would call it a service. Not a right.

If the government wants to go into business educating and then hiring doctors to serve the general public, then they should do so.

[TitanTiger 21,064]

What should happen to the uninsured if they can't afford coverage?

What should happen to the insured if they can't afford the cost of the deductible?

Good question. But doesn't really change anything.

[cooltigger21 0]

ACA is like a lot of other things. People think that a little government is ok and they're going to be able to keep it from getting out of hand and doing bad stuff they don't like. It never works that way. It inevitably leads to disaster and creates more problems than it solves. You can't create Utopia and make everything equal and fair, what the hell ever that is.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

ACA is like a lot of other things. People think that a little government is ok and they're going to be able to keep it from getting out of hand and doing bad stuff they don't like. It never works that way. It inevitably leads to disaster and creates more problems than it solves. You can't create Utopia and make everything equal and fair, what the hell ever that is.

To what level would you dismantle government? Please be specific.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Free market > than govt regulation

Always

You are in favor of removing all regulations related to healthcare? No FDA? No CDC? No licensing requirements? No regulation, no standards at the federal or state level?

Zero government! Buyer beware!

Argumentum absurdum

I'm suggesting there needs to be only minimal government oversight, while you seem to think that there has to be either hyper micromanagement or nothing at all.

That is not at all what I am suggesting. Do not revert to being Lyin' Raptor. Do you not attempt the obvious distortions and deception.

What is that minimal level? Can you point to a time when the level was acceptable? Should compliance be voluntary or, enforced?

[homersapien 12,172]

Is healthcare a right or a service?

Are doctor groups private businesses?

I would call it a service. Not a right.

If the government wants to go into business educating and then hiring doctors to serve the general public, then they should do so.

The choice between service or right is a non sequitur.

I can be - and is - both.

[homersapien 12,172]

Free market > than govt regulation

Always

You are in favor of removing all regulations related to healthcare? No FDA? No CDC? No licensing requirements? No regulation, no standards at the federal or state level?

Zero government! Buyer beware!

Argumentum absurdum

I'm suggesting there needs to be only minimal government oversight, while you seem to think that there has to be either hyper micromanagement or nothing at all.

No, actually what you posted was free market > government regulation, always, which is sort of nonsensical but we get your point.

But's it's cute how you immediately project your absolutism on to ICHY. What a weasel you are.

[AFTiger 282]

Is healthcare a right or a service?

Are doctor groups private businesses?

I would call it a service. Not a right.

If the government wants to go into business educating and then hiring doctors to serve the general public, then they should do so.

The choice between service or right is a non sequitur.

I can be - and is - both.

But so many consider it a right.

[homersapien 12,172]

ACA is like a lot of other things. People think that a little government is ok and they're going to be able to keep it from getting out of hand and doing bad stuff they don't like. It never works that way. It inevitably leads to disaster and creates more problems than it solves. You can't create Utopia and make everything equal and fair, what the hell ever that is.

To what level would you dismantle government? Please be specific.

To the point where it affects him personally.

[homersapien 12,172]

Is healthcare a right or a service?

Are doctor groups private businesses?

I would call it a service. Not a right.

If the government wants to go into business educating and then hiring doctors to serve the general public, then they should do so.

The choice between service or right is a non sequitur.

I can be - and is - both.

But so many consider it a right.

Well, yeah. That's because it is. It's a human right.