Cuba Has a New Communist

[cooltigger21 0]

People like me... Patriotic ?

And I'm not the one who's twisting things around here. That would be you, with your guilt laden insistence on trying to find fault with the United States where there is nothing to be gained from you harping on this topic. And talk about arrogance and hubris, will get your own words. Anyone who doesn't think or believe as you do is not "well-adjusted"?

The basic point is that this president, Obama, has a history of down playing the united states, especially when he is on foreign soil. I find it ridiculous and insulting, whereas you think it's just perfectly fine. I don't know what else to say about that.

Obama just can not pass up the chance to apologize for the United States when he goes to a foreign country. He believes that all of the problems in fhe world are our fault.

[TitanTiger 21,066]

People like me... Patriotic ?

No. I described people like you in my post. No need for you to editorialize. People like you who are "so blindly partisan that having a normal conversation with you is nearly impossible. You can't answer simple questions. You twist, wiggle and dodge at every turn. You can only see things the other side does in the absolute worst possible light and attribute only the most sinister motives to it"

There is nothing patriotic about that.

And I'm not the one who's twisting things around here. That would be you, with your guilt laden insistence on trying to find fault with the United States where there is nothing to be gained from you harping on this topic. And talk about arrogance and hubris, look @ your own words. Anyone who doesn't think or believe as you do is not "well-adjusted"?

A well-adjusted human being doesn't equate the acknowledgement of mistakes or areas where they could glean from others as being "guilt-laden."

The basic point is that this president, Obama, has a history of down playing the united states, especially when he is on foreign soil. I find it ridiculous and insulting, whereas you think it's just perfectly fine. I don't know what else to say about that.

Well, given that you struggle so much to handle simple questions about what the US can do better, or that other countries may do better than we do, this interpretation doesn't surprise me.

[TitanTiger 21,066]

People like me... Patriotic ?

And I'm not the one who's twisting things around here. That would be you, with your guilt laden insistence on trying to find fault with the United States where there is nothing to be gained from you harping on this topic. And talk about arrogance and hubris, will get your own words. Anyone who doesn't think or believe as you do is not "well-adjusted"?

The basic point is that this president, Obama, has a history of down playing the united states, especially when he is on foreign soil. I find it ridiculous and insulting, whereas you think it's just perfectly fine. I don't know what else to say about that.

Obama just can not pass up the chance to apologize for the United States when he goes to a foreign country. He believes that all of the problems in fhe world are our fault.

Yeah, it's a good thing he never says anything about what some of these other countries should do, improve upon, or change.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Obama was doing the wave at a baseball game while there was still blood onthe streets Brussels. But taking out the Islamic state is his number one top priority.

Still, the dude is not going to let a little Islamic terrorism spoil is " historic " day at the baseball park.

[TitanTiger 21,066]

Obama was doing the wave at a baseball game while there was still blood onthe streets Brussels. But taking out the Islamic state is his number one top priority.

Still, the dude is not going to let a little Islamic terrorism spoil is " historic " day at the baseball park.

It's a valid criticism to make. I don't know if I would have him fly back to Washington or go to Belgium as some have suggested (the last thing that country needs in the wake of all this is to deal with a visit from the US president and all the security logistics that would require). But I wouldn't have gone to the baseball game if I were him. He makes a valid point that the "whole premise of terrorism is to disrupt people’s lives" and to give in to that grants them a victory of sorts. But the optics of it aren't good.

All that said, it's a tangent from our discussion. Seems to be a regular tactic of some around here. When they don't want to answer the questions being asked or follow the discussion that's being had, just offer a new rabbit trail to follow.

[AURaptor 1,137]

First thing, the question you asked was itself a pointless rabbit trail. . Second of all, Obama still doesn't seem to grasp the importance of "optics". He ignored going to Paris after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, and then his sprint to the golf course, following the brief James Foley execution announcement, smiling with in seconds of speaking about the decapitation of an innocent American.

[TitanTiger 21,066]

First thing, the question you asked was itself a pointless rabbit trail.

No it wasn't. You took exception to him acknowledging things America hasn't done well, or the Cuba has perhaps done better at. So I stepped back for a wider angle to examine that critique and to better understand the nature of your objection. Is it that you don't believe America has any things that it doesn't do as well as others? We're literally the best at all things? You answered that of course America has things it can improve on or that others may do better (though later you seemed to waffle on that). So then we progress to ask whether the nature of your objection is that he admitted to this publicly. You've mostly dodged that question thus far. My next question would be that if you don't have any problem with an American president admitted that we don't always get it right on something and maybe another country does, is the nature of your objection that he did it on the soil of a historic enemy, or that it was a communist country that he did this in?

The point is, it wasn't a rabbit trail. It was completely on topic to try and unpack why you were so bent about this - specifically, not in vague generalities. It was to take it out of the realm of it being Obama, or a Democrat and just ask the question in non-partisan terms. That is a completely reasonable approach to it and nothing even akin to a rabbit trail.

Second of all, Obama still doesn't seem to grasp the importance of "optics". He ignored going to Paris after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, and then his sprint to the golf course, following the brief James Foley execution announcement, smiling with in seconds of speaking about the decapitation of an innocent American.

I don't disagree with Obama's blind spot on "optics" at times. It's a valid criticism. Even if going back to Washington, or staying away from the baseball game isn't going to actually change anything or help matters, make it look like you're 'on the case' so to speak. But I disagree that going to Paris after the Hebdo attacks or heading to Belgium now as some have suggested would be good ideas. Law enforcement and national security folks over there have everything on their plates they can handle in the aftermath of attacks like these. They do not need the headache of a US president visit right now adding to the stress of securing their country.

[AURaptor 1,137]

No one said Obama should have jet off to Brussels , that I've heard. That's a red herring. Paris was completely different, as there were dozens of world leaders who did march in support of those who lost their lives. But no one from the United States was there, at least no one of significance. Not Obama, not Biden, not even John freaking Kerry

[TitanTiger 21,066]

No one said Obama should have jet off to Brussels , that I've heard. That's a red herring.

No one in this thread. But some have made that critique. That's why I mentioned it and why it's not a red herring.

Paris was completely different, as there were dozens of world leaders who did march in support of those who lost their lives. But no one from the United States was there, at least no one of significance. Not Obama, not Biden, not even John freaking Kerry

You may have a point on that one then.

[TitanTiger 21,066]

As a follow up, the administration did later admit they should have sent a higher profile representative:

"I think it’s fair to say we should have sent someone with a higher profile to be there," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said at the daily briefing Monday afternoon. "That said, there is no doubt that the American people and this administration stand foursquare behind our allies in France as they face down this threat."

[AURaptor 1,137]

I don't see a need for our Prez to jet off to a foreign country right after an attack or crisis. Those who do say he should are daft. IMO

[TitanTiger 21,066]

I don't see a need for our Prez to jet off to a foreign country right after an attack or crisis. Those who do say he should are daft. IMO

He didn't. He arrived in Cuba on Sunday. The Brussels attack happened two days later.

[AURaptor 1,137]

I don't see a need for our Prez to jet off to a foreign country right after an attack or crisis. Those who do say he should are daft. IMO

He didn't. He arrived in Cuba on Sunday. The Brussels attack happened two days later.

I know. I just hadn't heard anyone say he should leave Cuba & head for Brussles.

[TitanTiger 21,066]

I don't see a need for our Prez to jet off to a foreign country right after an attack or crisis. Those who do say he should are daft. IMO

He didn't. He arrived in Cuba on Sunday. The Brussels attack happened two days later.

I know. I just hadn't heard anyone say he should leave Cuba & head for Brussles.

Oh. Gotcha. Wasn't tracking.

[TitanTiger 21,066]

It was Cruz and Karl Rove who suggested he should be making plans to head to Belgium:

“We don’t need another lecture from Obama on Islamophobia,” he said.

“The people of America deserve a president who doesn’t grovel before a communist dictator who hates America,” Cruz said, referencing Cuban leader Raúl Castro.

He went on to add, “President Obama should be back in America keeping this country safe or President Obama should be planning to travel to Brussels.”

Karl Rove, the former top political aide to President George W. Bush, also urged Obama to head across the Atlantic.

“I think the president of the United States needs to go to Europe soon and show solidarity in this fight against Islamic terrorism,” he said Tuesday morning on “Fox and Friends."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/john-kasich-brussels-attack-obama-221084

[AURaptor 1,137]

OK then, that makes a bit more sense now. Making plans implies showing intent to go in the next month or two, as a show of support. That's not exactly getting up from a table in Cuba and jetting off to Brussels immediately.

It's also sort of a dig at the president, who has in the past claimed that he had a conflict in his schedule which would not allow him to fly to France, for example. I think this is just a telegraph to that point, and a reminder that now would be a good time for him to clear his schedule for something that may come up later on down the road.

Sad that our Prez needs adults to remind him how to do his job.

[TitanTiger 21,066]

OK then, that makes a bit more sense now. Making plans implies showing intent to go in the next month or two, as a show of support. That's not exactly getting up from a table in Cuba and jetting off to Brussels immediately.

It's also sort everything dig at the president, who has in the past claimed that he had a conflict in his schedule which would not allow him to fly to France, for example. I think this is just a telegraph to that point, and a reminder that now would be a good time for him to clear his schedule for something that may come up later on down the road.

That's a good point. It could be taken as "get your ass to Brussels, stat" or simply, "start making plans to get over there once the dust has settled a bit."

But back to the main discussion that I was trying to engage you in and I explained here:

No it wasn't. You took exception to him acknowledging things America hasn't done well, or the Cuba has perhaps done better at. So I stepped back for a wider angle to examine that critique and to better understand the nature of your objection. Is it that you don't believe America has any things that it doesn't do as well as others? We're literally the best at all things? You answered that of course America has things it can improve on or that others may do better (though later you seemed to waffle on that). So then we progress to ask whether the nature of your objection is that he admitted to this publicly. You've mostly dodged that question thus far. My next question would be that if you don't have any problem with an American president admitted that we don't always get it right on something and maybe another country does, is the nature of your objection that he did it on the soil of a historic enemy, or that it was a communist country that he did this in?

I'm trying to understand your issue with his statements.

Is it that you really think the US does everything better than everyone else? If yes, I don't think that's a realistic view of things. If no, then...

Is it that you think if there are things we don't do well or that others do better than us, that it should never be admitted to publicly by a US president? If yes, then why? If no, then...

Is it that you think a president shouldn't admit such things on foreign soil? If yes, then why? If no, then...

Is it just that it shouldn't be admitted on the soil of a communist country? If yes, then why? If no, then...

What is the specific nature of your problem with this? That is what I'm trying to unpack and understand better.

[AURaptor 1,137]

I don't think that our president should go to a communist country and tell the world that he thinks they do things better than we do. You can talk in favorable terms of what is good about Cuba without doing a side-by-side comparison to how they are superior to us and then cite specific issues. And for that matter, I think he's completely wrong on the points he brought up. There is no "free" anything. It's taken from the people , at gunpoint , and then parceled out back to them

[TitanTiger 21,066]

I don't think that our president should go to a communist country and tell the world that he thinks they do things better than we do. You can talk in favorable terms of what is good about Cuba without doing a side-by-side comparison to how they are superior to us and then cite specific issues.

Thanks for that more detailed explanation. So it is specifically about it being a communist country. If a president had made similar statements in, say, Canada, Germany, or Japan, it wouldn't bother you then?

And for that matter, I think he's completely wrong on the points he brought up. There is no "free" anything. It's taken from the people , at gunpoint , and then parceled out back to them

Well, that is a different matter. It can be ok to do a certain thing in general even if you disagree with the view espoused.

Let me ask you this about your second statement though. Do you feel this way about all things the government taxes us for that provide a common benefit to society? For instance, we are taxed by the federal government to maintain and build interstates and highways and such. Is this confiscation at gunpoint? Or is it a reasonable thing to have taxes for because it provides a societal benefit that is available to all (even if you don't drive personally, you benefit from it indirectly in various ways). Could universal healthcare coverage be viewed in similar way - that it provides a benefit that is available to everyone and that indirectly benefits you even if you don't use it that much and don't have any serious health problems, such as lowering the cost per person for health care in the country? Or lessening the strain on emergency rooms across the country that are the only source of care for some poor people? Or preventive care stopping people from coming down with more serious health problems that bog down the system and cost a lot more to treat?

[AURaptor 1,137]

Healthcare is in no way synonymous to highways & utilities. I can't believe we're still talking about this

[TitanTiger 21,066]

Healthcare is in no way synonymous to highways & utilities. I can't believe we're still talking about this

First, explain why it isn't.

Second, can you also address the first part of my last post?

[AURaptor 1,137]

I'll get to it. Eventually .

[AURaptor 1,137]

Healthcare is in no way synonymous to highways & utilities. I can't believe we're still talking about this

First, explain why it isn't.

Neal Boortz explains it thusly...

"You may think, for instance, that you have a right to health care. After all, Hillary said so, didn't she? But you cannot receive health care unless some doctor or health practitioner surrenders some of his time - his life - to you. He may be willing to do this for compensation, but that's his choice.

You have no "right" to his time or property. You have no right to his or any other person's life or to any portion thereof."

"Logic cannot support the premise that health care is a right. Health care is a service that is administered by another human being with the requisite skills and knowledge. To claim that healthcare as a "right" is to claim a right to the services of the health-care provider. In effect, this means you are claiming a "right" to a portion of that person's life – both a portion of the time already spent developing his skills, and a portion of the time spent practicing those skills on you."

Second, can you also address the first part of my last post?

Obama's dad was a communist. Do you disagree ? The US fought a decades old cold war against - communists. Communism is a wicked, oppressive form of govt which deprives mankind of basic freedom. No one in Cuba can openly mock or speak ill of the Castro brothers or of their dead bunk buddy, Che. To do so would win you a Go Directly to Jail card.

For the leader of the free world to stand there, in front of a mural of a cold blooded killer in Che, and openly praise Communist Cuba while admonishing the United States is beyond despicable.

How am I even having to explain this to you ? How do you not know this on your own ?

[aubaseball 2,788]

titan you have every right to go to a foreign country and apologize for Americas faults, but the president of the USA should never apologize in front of a foreign leader.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

titan you have every right to go to a foreign country and apologize for Americas faults, but the president of the USA should never apologize in front of a foreign leader.

Exactly. And while the people in Brussels are still finding body parts you sure as heck don't do the wave with a commie and then dance with a sexy woman in a socialist country. The POTUS should act like a leader in times like this instead of displaying frivolous behavior. But Obama is sure as heck no leader and the world knows it. He is an embarrassment to America.

Even CNN agrees.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2016/03/24/cnn-panel-goes-nuclear-obama-over-going-ball-game-dancing-tango