Why Sandy Hook parents are suing a gunmaker

[aubearcat 2,153]

Jeff, I love my RRA. It performs like a sewing machine. I've had only one or two malfunctions out of it ever. Those were mainly my fault for running it too dry. I took it to an advanced SWAT course last November and oiled it with Mobil1 0/20 synthetic because it was a rainy week. It performed flawlessly. A few guys from the Gadsden area had Scars, now those things sounded like bombs going off. Especially compared to our little 223 rounds.

AR's are definitely accurate weapons with fantastic ergonomics, but they absolutely prefer to be shot wet.

By SCAR's, I'm assuming that you're referring to SCAR's in 7.62 caliber. The 5.56 SCAR's I've fired are little different from AR's. SCAR in 7.62 is a superb rifle. All the accuracy of a Springfield M1A, in a much more modern platform.

Yes, it is 7.62 (I believe)and had a very modern look. Very, very loud boom with a long flash from the muzzle.

Aside from the bore, 7.62 SCAR's are frequently indistinguishable from 5.56 models. They're bloody expensive, but I do suggest replacing your issued patrol rifle with something in 7.62 if it's an option. If you have to stay in the AR family, 7.62 AR's are becoming quite common and affordable. From your responses, I've gathered that you're a LEO that is also a shooter. In my experience of dealing with them, LEO's that are also shooters are the best LEO's. You won't take lethal force lightly, you'll deploy a weapon you're most familiar with, and you'll generally seek to find means that avoid the deployment of lethal force.

Departmental policy dictates nothing but a 223 round and while on duty, nothing but departmental issued ammunition.

[Strychnine 1,808]

Jeff, I love my RRA. It performs like a sewing machine. I've had only one or two malfunctions out of it ever. Those were mainly my fault for running it too dry. I took it to an advanced SWAT course last November and oiled it with Mobil1 0/20 synthetic because it was a rainy week. It performed flawlessly. A few guys from the Gadsden area had Scars, now those things sounded like bombs going off. Especially compared to our little 223 rounds.

AR's are definitely accurate weapons with fantastic ergonomics, but they absolutely prefer to be shot wet.

By SCAR's, I'm assuming that you're referring to SCAR's in 7.62 caliber. The 5.56 SCAR's I've fired are little different from AR's. SCAR in 7.62 is a superb rifle. All the accuracy of a Springfield M1A, in a much more modern platform.

Yes, it is 7.62 (I believe)and had a very modern look. Very, very loud boom with a long flash from the muzzle.

Aside from the bore, 7.62 SCAR's are frequently indistinguishable from 5.56 models. They're bloody expensive, but I do suggest replacing your issued patrol rifle with something in 7.62 if it's an option. If you have to stay in the AR family, 7.62 AR's are becoming quite common and affordable. From your responses, I've gathered that you're a LEO that is also a shooter. In my experience of dealing with them, LEO's that are also shooters are the best LEO's. You won't take lethal force lightly, you'll deploy a weapon you're most familiar with, and you'll generally seek to find means that avoid the deployment of lethal force.

Departmental policy dictates nothing but a 223 round and while on duty, nothing but departmental issued ammunition.

Is the Rock River a department-issued weapon, or your own choice? And you didn't address whether you're a shooter or not.

[AUUSN 823]

USN, I never even glance at the cartoons, I just mark the poster down as infantile. Save the bytes.

Sure you didnt...

[aubearcat 2,153]

Jeff, I love my RRA. It performs like a sewing machine. I've had only one or two malfunctions out of it ever. Those were mainly my fault for running it too dry. I took it to an advanced SWAT course last November and oiled it with Mobil1 0/20 synthetic because it was a rainy week. It performed flawlessly. A few guys from the Gadsden area had Scars, now those things sounded like bombs going off. Especially compared to our little 223 rounds.

AR's are definitely accurate weapons with fantastic ergonomics, but they absolutely prefer to be shot wet.

By SCAR's, I'm assuming that you're referring to SCAR's in 7.62 caliber. The 5.56 SCAR's I've fired are little different from AR's. SCAR in 7.62 is a superb rifle. All the accuracy of a Springfield M1A, in a much more modern platform.

Yes, it is 7.62 (I believe)and had a very modern look. Very, very loud boom with a long flash from the muzzle.

Aside from the bore, 7.62 SCAR's are frequently indistinguishable from 5.56 models. They're bloody expensive, but I do suggest replacing your issued patrol rifle with something in 7.62 if it's an option. If you have to stay in the AR family, 7.62 AR's are becoming quite common and affordable. From your responses, I've gathered that you're a LEO that is also a shooter. In my experience of dealing with them, LEO's that are also shooters are the best LEO's. You won't take lethal force lightly, you'll deploy a weapon you're most familiar with, and you'll generally seek to find means that avoid the deployment of lethal force.

Departmental policy dictates nothing but a 223 round and while on duty, nothing but departmental issued ammunition.

Is the Rock River a department-issued weapon, or your own choice? And you didn't address whether you're a shooter or not.

We buy our own firearms. I bought the Rock River because of good reviews and got it at a good price. I guess as far as being a shooter, I qualify at the range twice a year with the department and our Warrant Service Team I'm a part of qualifies a handful of times a year. I also go to the range on my own, usually with my son and his 22 rifle a few times a year. I carry either my Larry Vickers Glock 17 on duty or my Glock 31. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by shooter though.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Also, should be noted. AR15's if designed along the lines of the M series of assault rifles the military uses is not even designed to kill targets, but to wound. And the longer variations at least are not good for close quarters combat... think M16s.

I loved the M16A2, no scopes, extra flair, etc... If I could see the target I could hit it every time. That being said, it's no where near the top of my list of weapons I would take inside a building for multiple targets.

And to the naysayers from previous pages, hell yeah I'd use a shotgun, not your grand daddys, but a 1014 or one of those old school AA12s or the mossbergs we used to carry.

All of this to say, if we are taking away "weapons of war" then the shottys gotta go too, with the ARs.

shotguns are definitely weapons of war but I wouldn't consider them mass casualty weapons.

[AUUSN 823]

Report: Father pretends to shoot daughter, gun goes off

The 7-year-old son of Justin Ryan Jones said his father was pretending to fire at his sister when the gun went off and he shot the 9-year-old girl, according to an arrest affidavit.

Jones, 30, of Austin is charged with injury to a child, a first-degree felony, and remained in the Bell County Jail on Monday in lieu of $25,000 bail, jail records showed.

Jones reportedly told a Bell County Sheriff’s Department deputy he was showing his children gun safety when the gun he was holding fired and shot his 9-year-old daughter.

But Jones’ son said his father was pretending to shoot them.

The 7-year-old said he liked the clicking sound the gun made. He said his father pulled the trigger and “his sister was shot,” the affidavit said.

Jones’ other son, age 6, said his father was pointing the gun at his sister and held it in both hands while pretending to shoot them.

The girl was shot in the upper chest area and was initially in critical condition when transported to Baylor Scott and White Memorial Hospital. The injuries she had led to several surgeries, but she was recently released from the hospital and is expected to fully recover, Lt. T.J. Cruz, Bell County spokesman, said Friday.

Jones was allowed to go to the hospital with his daughter after the shooting because he was so upset after the incident, Cruz said.

The father was watching his children in their grandparent’s home in the 5200 block of Indian Springs Road when the shooting happened. The children live with their grandparents, Cruz said.

Children’s Protective Services is investigating the case and is involved with the family, Julie Moody, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Family & Protective Services, said Monday. CPS has not removed the children, Moody said.

Jones was arrested Friday after authorities received a tip he was in a parking lot near Michaels, 3550 General Bruce Drive in Temple.

[Mims44 1,969]

Also, should be noted. AR15's if designed along the lines of the M series of assault rifles the military uses is not even designed to kill targets, but to wound. And the longer variations at least are not good for close quarters combat... think M16s.

I loved the M16A2, no scopes, extra flair, etc... If I could see the target I could hit it every time. That being said, it's no where near the top of my list of weapons I would take inside a building for multiple targets.

And to the naysayers from previous pages, hell yeah I'd use a shotgun, not your grand daddys, but a 1014 or one of those old school AA12s or the mossbergs we used to carry.

All of this to say, if we are taking away "weapons of war" then the shottys gotta go too, with the ARs.

shotguns are definitely weapons of war but I wouldn't consider them mass casualty weapons.

For the area concerned in this thread it is. A series of small rooms all contained in a large building. At least as how mass casualty is being defined within this thread.

I wouldn't consider either mass casualty personally. The M249, 240B, .50 crew served, etc. would be mass casualty, and civilians can't buy those thankfully, the devastation by a trained shooter using a 249 in a school would be horrendous.

[Strychnine 1,808]

Jeff, I love my RRA. It performs like a sewing machine. I've had only one or two malfunctions out of it ever. Those were mainly my fault for running it too dry. I took it to an advanced SWAT course last November and oiled it with Mobil1 0/20 synthetic because it was a rainy week. It performed flawlessly. A few guys from the Gadsden area had Scars, now those things sounded like bombs going off. Especially compared to our little 223 rounds.

AR's are definitely accurate weapons with fantastic ergonomics, but they absolutely prefer to be shot wet.

By SCAR's, I'm assuming that you're referring to SCAR's in 7.62 caliber. The 5.56 SCAR's I've fired are little different from AR's. SCAR in 7.62 is a superb rifle. All the accuracy of a Springfield M1A, in a much more modern platform.

Yes, it is 7.62 (I believe)and had a very modern look. Very, very loud boom with a long flash from the muzzle.

Aside from the bore, 7.62 SCAR's are frequently indistinguishable from 5.56 models. They're bloody expensive, but I do suggest replacing your issued patrol rifle with something in 7.62 if it's an option. If you have to stay in the AR family, 7.62 AR's are becoming quite common and affordable. From your responses, I've gathered that you're a LEO that is also a shooter. In my experience of dealing with them, LEO's that are also shooters are the best LEO's. You won't take lethal force lightly, you'll deploy a weapon you're most familiar with, and you'll generally seek to find means that avoid the deployment of lethal force.

Departmental policy dictates nothing but a 223 round and while on duty, nothing but departmental issued ammunition.

Is the Rock River a department-issued weapon, or your own choice? And you didn't address whether you're a shooter or not.

We buy our own firearms. I bought the Rock River because of good reviews and got it at a good price. I guess as far as being a shooter, I qualify at the range twice a year with the department and our Warrant Service Team I'm a part of qualifies a handful of times a year. I also go to the range on my own, usually with my son and his 22 rifle a few times a year. I carry either my Larry Vickers Glock 17 on duty or my Glock 31. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by shooter though.

That's absolutely what I meant by shooter. Someone that appreciates the craft and skill involved, and wants to teach their son the same. In my opinion, an appreciation for the art of shooting is a fundamental thing that separates good police officers from those that shouldn't wear a badge.

As i said earlier, the Rock River was a good choice. I'm generally a buyer of their 1911 hanguns, but I've worked with enough of their AR's to know that they're solid quality. In the sub-$1000 market, Rock River is impossible to beat. If that's an approved choice for patrol rifle in your department, I feel quite good for the prospect of your safety.

[alexava 6,974]

Mims, what type shotgun? Pump, semi- auto, detachable mag or tube mag? How many rounds would this hold. Barrel length, choke, load, shot size. Not argumentative, seriously curious.

[AUFAN78 4,130]

Shotgun statement without merit? Bring it up with Joe Biden then. Ha ha ha.

Okay then. Well you're just as wrong as he is. Joke is still on you.

No , simpleton. You are the one who is wrong. Doesn't take a freaking military man to understand that a shotgun will cause more damage in a crowded area than a assault rifle.

How much do you think the pellets spread? I'd rather have a 30 round magazine with a much longer effective range of fire. AUUSN feel free to chime in if I'm wrong.

You're not. I have several shotguns and shoot clays. Could cover your spread with you palm at 20 ft.

Never heard of shooting clays at 20'? So, what is the spread at 20 yards? 30?

[alexava 6,974]

As for assault rifles, I see no useful need for them. I know many people who shoot like strick9. A couple who hunt pigs. That is not disturbing. What is disturbing is the people claiming self defense purposes. Unless you lead a life of Tony Montana you are not likely to ever need that for defense. It is actually an offensive weapon. What really is disturbing is the crowd that claims they need protection from the government. Hell our local gun store sells five gallon tubs of survival food. I have give up the gun debate as far as mag limits. Just too many in circulation to limit the access to them in my kids or grandkids lifetime. That don't make it make sense, it just is what it is. I do want the background check and licensing path to gun ownership and possession improved but don't have much confidence it will be. I may have stated somewhere on this site previously that we spend too much time and energy on gun control and abortion debates. Neither will ever change significantly. A lot of the politicians who lead these arguments are not passionate about it just pandering to their bases.

[MDM4AU 337]

Report: Father pretends to shoot daughter, gun goes off

The 7-year-old son of Justin Ryan Jones said his father was pretending to fire at his sister when the gun went off and he shot the 9-year-old girl, according to an arrest affidavit.

Jones, 30, of Austin is charged with injury to a child, a first-degree felony, and remained in the Bell County Jail on Monday in lieu of $25,000 bail, jail records showed.

Jones reportedly told a Bell County Sheriff’s Department deputy he was showing his children gun safety when the gun he was holding fired and shot his 9-year-old daughter.

But Jones’ son said his father was pretending to shoot them.

The 7-year-old said he liked the clicking sound the gun made. He said his father pulled the trigger and “his sister was shot,” the affidavit said.

Jones’ other son, age 6, said his father was pointing the gun at his sister and held it in both hands while pretending to shoot them.

The girl was shot in the upper chest area and was initially in critical condition when transported to Baylor Scott and White Memorial Hospital. The injuries she had led to several surgeries, but she was recently released from the hospital and is expected to fully recover, Lt. T.J. Cruz, Bell County spokesman, said Friday.

Jones was allowed to go to the hospital with his daughter after the shooting because he was so upset after the incident, Cruz said.

The father was watching his children in their grandparent’s home in the 5200 block of Indian Springs Road when the shooting happened. The children live with their grandparents, Cruz said.

Children’s Protective Services is investigating the case and is involved with the family, Julie Moody, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Family & Protective Services, said Monday. CPS has not removed the children, Moody said.

Jones was arrested Friday after authorities received a tip he was in a parking lot near Michaels, 3550 General Bruce Drive in Temple.

Good grief, man. The first rule of gun safety is treat every gun like it's loaded. Glad the girl will live.

[AUDub 11,784]

Shotgun statement without merit? Bring it up with Joe Biden then. Ha ha ha.

Okay then. Well you're just as wrong as he is. Joke is still on you.

No , simpleton. You are the one who is wrong. Doesn't take a freaking military man to understand that a shotgun will cause more damage in a crowded area than a assault rifle.

How much do you think the pellets spread? I'd rather have a 30 round magazine with a much longer effective range of fire. AUUSN feel free to chime in if I'm wrong.

You're not. I have several shotguns and shoot clays. Could cover your spread with you palm at 20 ft.

Never heard of shooting clays at 20'? So, what is the spread at 20 yards? 30?

I plink stationary targets sometimes too, goofball.

At 20 yards? 2 or 3 feet with no choke.

[AUFAN78 4,130]

Shotgun statement without merit? Bring it up with Joe Biden then. Ha ha ha.

Okay then. Well you're just as wrong as he is. Joke is still on you.

No , simpleton. You are the one who is wrong. Doesn't take a freaking military man to understand that a shotgun will cause more damage in a crowded area than a assault rifle.

How much do you think the pellets spread? I'd rather have a 30 round magazine with a much longer effective range of fire. AUUSN feel free to chime in if I'm wrong.

You're not. I have several shotguns and shoot clays. Could cover your spread with you palm at 20 ft.

Never heard of shooting clays at 20'? So, what is the spread at 20 yards? 30?

I plink stationary targets sometimes too, goofball.

At 20 yards? 2 or 3 feet with no choke.

You plink with a shotgun? Damn Ben.

[AUDub 11,784]

Shotgun statement without merit? Bring it up with Joe Biden then. Ha ha ha.

Okay then. Well you're just as wrong as he is. Joke is still on you.

No , simpleton. You are the one who is wrong. Doesn't take a freaking military man to understand that a shotgun will cause more damage in a crowded area than a assault rifle.

How much do you think the pellets spread? I'd rather have a 30 round magazine with a much longer effective range of fire. AUUSN feel free to chime in if I'm wrong.

You're not. I have several shotguns and shoot clays. Could cover your spread with you palm at 20 ft.

Never heard of shooting clays at 20'? So, what is the spread at 20 yards? 30?

I plink stationary targets sometimes too, goofball.

At 20 yards? 2 or 3 feet with no choke.

You plink with a shotgun? Damn Ben.

I had to burn through a s*** ton of ammo when we moved back into Trussville. One nice thing about living way out in the country was that no one hassled you when you wanted to go out and shoot.

They tend to frown on it in the 'burbs.

[AUFAN78 4,130]

Shotgun statement without merit? Bring it up with Joe Biden then. Ha ha ha.

Okay then. Well you're just as wrong as he is. Joke is still on you.

No , simpleton. You are the one who is wrong. Doesn't take a freaking military man to understand that a shotgun will cause more damage in a crowded area than a assault rifle.

How much do you think the pellets spread? I'd rather have a 30 round magazine with a much longer effective range of fire. AUUSN feel free to chime in if I'm wrong.

You're not. I have several shotguns and shoot clays. Could cover your spread with you palm at 20 ft.

Never heard of shooting clays at 20'? So, what is the spread at 20 yards? 30?

I plink stationary targets sometimes too, goofball.

At 20 yards? 2 or 3 feet with no choke.

You plink with a shotgun? Damn Ben.

I had to burn through a s*** ton of ammo when we moved back into Trussville. One nice thing about living way out in the country was that no one hassled you when you wanted to go out and shoot.

They tend to frown on it in the 'burbs.

Well thanks for the explanation. I was about to offer you a free eye exam.

[alexava 6,974]

Last week I got Alex the 10-22 I have been considering for his 11 th birthday. About to order a scope rail that allows you to see iron sights too. He is ready for some plinking!

[AUDub 11,784]

Last week I got Alex the 10-22 I have been considering for his 11 th birthday. About to order a scope rail that allows you to see iron sights too. He is ready for some plinking!

Ooh, a classic! My dad still has the one he got from his dad when he was about that age.

[alexava 6,974]

Last week I got Alex the 10-22 I have been considering for his 11 th birthday. About to order a scope rail that allows you to see iron sights too. He is ready for some plinking!

Ooh, a classic! My dad still has the one he got from his dad when he was about that age.

i had a friend in the 80's that had one. I loved it. Besides just wanting one I never had much use for one. So I had to get my son one. Probably been producing them since the 60's or earlier.

[Strychnine 1,808]

Last week I got Alex the 10-22 I have been considering for his 11 th birthday. About to order a scope rail that allows you to see iron sights too. He is ready for some plinking!

You bought the assault rifle of 22's. That said, the Ruger 10-22 is one of the best and most fun rifles in the history of .22LR.

[AUDub 11,784]

Last week I got Alex the 10-22 I have been considering for his 11 th birthday. About to order a scope rail that allows you to see iron sights too. He is ready for some plinking!

Ooh, a classic! My dad still has the one he got from his dad when he was about that age.

i had a friend in the 80's that had one. I loved it. Besides just wanting one I never had much use for one. So I had to get my son one. Probably been producing them since the 60's or earlier.

I remember filling up empty milk cartons and putting them on a stump on the other side of a lake like it was yesterday.

Been around since the mid 60s. My dad got his as a teenager.

[homersapien 12,172]

Also, should be noted. AR15's if designed along the lines of the M series of assault rifles the military uses is not even designed to kill targets, but to wound. And the longer variations at least are not good for close quarters combat... think M16s.

I loved the M16A2, no scopes, extra flair, etc... If I could see the target I could hit it every time. That being said, it's no where near the top of my list of weapons I would take inside a building for multiple targets.

And to the naysayers from previous pages, hell yeah I'd use a shotgun, not your grand daddys, but a 1014 or one of those old school AA12s or the mossbergs we used to carry.

All of this to say, if we are taking away "weapons of war" then the shottys gotta go too, with the ARs.

shotguns are definitely weapons of war but I wouldn't consider them mass casualty weapons.

For the area concerned in this thread it is. A series of small rooms all contained in a large building. At least as how mass casualty is being defined within this thread.

I wouldn't consider either mass casualty personally. The M249, 240B, .50 crew served, etc. would be mass casualty, and civilians can't buy those thankfully, the devastation by a trained shooter using a 249 in a school would be horrendous.

I think you stumbled across the point.

[Mims44 1,969]

To Homer: Didn't stumble across anything I have crazily enough used the same logic that AUUSN did at the beginning of this thread. Since "arms" is not clearly defined, why am I not allowed to keep weaponized small pox in mason jars around my house? Maybe put a few out in my yard, so any potential intruder might step on them... voila, home defense.

To Alexava: The military carries multiple types of shotguns; magazine, drum, and pump I've all seen across various units and service types. I personally like mag and drums, but that's likely due to not growing up shooting pump actions, someone who used it a lot growing up would be more comfortable firing and pumping. To the other post, if I ever bought a firearm for home defense it would be an M16A2 styled AR, or if I can get the cash, I'd get an actual M16A2 (actually legal, but lots of hoops and money) barring that, and much more likely, I would get an M9.

Not because I feel they are optimum home defense weapons of course, but because I have years of experience training with and using these firearms.

[aujeff11 6,243]

To Homer: Didn't stumble across anything :)/> I have crazily enough used the same logic that AUUSN did at the beginning of this thread. Since "arms" is not clearly defined, why am I not allowed to keep weaponized small pox in mason jars around my house? Maybe put a few out in my yard, so any potential intruder might step on them... voila, home defense.

To Alexava: The military carries multiple types of shotguns; magazine, drum, and pump I've all seen across various units and service types. I personally like mag and drums, but that's likely due to not growing up shooting pump actions, someone who used it a lot growing up would be more comfortable firing and pumping. To the other post, if I ever bought a firearm for home defense it would be an M16A2 styled AR, or if I can get the cash, I'd get an actual M16A2 (actually legal, but lots of hoops and money) barring that, and much more likely, I would get an M9.

Not because I feel they are optimum home defense weapons of course, but because I have years of experience training with and using these firearms.

I'm glad I read the last sentence because I really don't consider M16s that great of home defense weapons at all.

[alexava 6,974]

To Homer: Didn't stumble across anything :)/> I have crazily enough used the same logic that AUUSN did at the beginning of this thread. Since "arms" is not clearly defined, why am I not allowed to keep weaponized small pox in mason jars around my house? Maybe put a few out in my yard, so any potential intruder might step on them... voila, home defense.

To Alexava: The military carries multiple types of shotguns; magazine, drum, and pump I've all seen across various units and service types. I personally like mag and drums, but that's likely due to not growing up shooting pump actions, someone who used it a lot growing up would be more comfortable firing and pumping. To the other post, if I ever bought a firearm for home defense it would be an M16A2 styled AR, or if I can get the cash, I'd get an actual M16A2 (actually legal, but lots of hoops and money) barring that, and much more likely, I would get an M9.

Not because I feel they are optimum home defense weapons of course, but because I have years of experience training with and using these firearms.

I'm glad I read the last sentence because I really don't consider M16s that great of home defense weapons at all.

i have a 9mm in the nightstand and a shotgun in the closet actually several in the closets but one loaded. im good.