2016 Tx Tech GT QB Davis Webb (Flip to Cal 5/18/16)

[McLoofus 35,182]

Btw, if you want to call lack of experience a critical shortcoming, then I'm with you 100%. That applies to all of them.

[bg5 536]

I think the bottom line on our QB's is that none of them have been much above average when in a game. For Gus to keep his job he will need a QB that is above avg.. I think the rest of the team will be pretty solid so it will come down to this position the most important position on the field.

[AUApostle 7,762]

Btw, if you want to call lack of experience a critical shortcoming, then I'm with you 100%. That applies to all of them.

And Sean is the closest thing we have to a starter....his shortcomings are certainly less than the others'. Put Sean in JJ's body and you have the QB that we need to win a championship.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I think the bottom line on our QB's is that none of them have been much above average when in a game. For Gus to keep his job he will need a QB that is above avg.. I think the rest of the team will be pretty solid so it will come down to this position the most important position on the field.

I feel that Sean was far above average considering that he inherited a bit of a train wreck as a redshirt freshman without a single snap under his belt.

Btw, if you want to call lack of experience a critical shortcoming, then I'm with you 100%. That applies to all of them.

And Sean is the closest thing we have to a starter....his shortcomings are certainly less than the others'. Put Sean in JJ's body and you have the QB that we need to win a championship.

I must admit that it's tempting to daydream about. And, before I make the threadjack police put down their donuts, Davis Webb might be exactly that.

[steeleagle 2,945]

The similarities are many between this Webb saga and suggestions on this board when Russell Wilson considered visiting AU late Spring of the Khiel Frazier/Barrett Trotter/Clint Moseley era. The feeling by many (some still here) was that the staff would mess up the "good chemistry" between that QB batch and even considering Wilson would be flat being disloyal to that group. Whether we were ever in the running or not for Wilson, your QBs are either getting the job done or not. And it's hard to hide your QB in the SEC.

The only reason WIlson chose WIsc over us was that Wisc had veteran and ALL-Big Ten OL coming back to support him. We had issues at OL going into that year. Wilson made the right choice..

[steeleagle 2,945]

Why has our QB recruiting been so bad?

This was addressed extensively yesterday. On paper QB recruiting has been fine. Other quality schools wanted these kids. The bigger question is development & it comes from 1 glaring fact. Gus & Rhett have not developed 1 solitary quality QB they signed out of HS as HC or assistants in their collegiate careers except for maybe Mitch Mustain if you want to call it that as much as Nutt & Gus disagrred on how to use MM & the O.

I personally wanted Jerod Evans.

You and me both, brother. How he wasn't pursued defies explanation.

Who said he wasnt persued? I remember ORegon and us on him early, so i dont know what you mean, by not being persued.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Who said he wasnt persued? I remember ORegon and us on him early, so i dont know what you mean, by not being persued.

He was referring strictly to us not pursuing Evans, and we did back off of him for some reason.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Each of our QBs has a critical shortcoming or 2 that cannot be coached up at this point. That all goes back to talent identification and errors in recruiting. If you took their best strengths and compiled them together you'd have a decent QB. This is not new information, we've known this since the middle of last season. It's kind of baffling that we again pursued and signed a QB with an achilles heel (JF3).

I totally disagree. Sean and John both can be "coached up". Sean just needs to continue to mature and get faster in processing the game. John just needs to work on his passing and bulk up. All of that is possible if they put their minds to it. Even Queen, though the shoulder injury is a bit concerning, still has potential (though no one knows how much since we've never really seen him play). It would not be surprising at all if the shoulder injury was caused by the fact that he hasn't been able to really work out that arm and was also probably, subconsciously, protecting his elbow. Jeremy is the only one who has an issue that can't be easily fixed with hard work, but they can still be fixed.

[ellitor 33,783]

The similarities are many between this Webb saga and suggestions on this board when Russell Wilson considered visiting AU

He did visit AU. One of a number of articles

[AU-24 3,130]

The similarities are many between this Webb saga and suggestions on this board when Russell Wilson considered visiting AU late Spring of the Khiel Frazier/Barrett Trotter/Clint Moseley era. The feeling by many (some still here) was that the staff would mess up the "good chemistry" between that QB batch and even considering Wilson would be flat being disloyal to that group. Whether we were ever in the running or not for Wilson, your QBs are either getting the job done or not. And it's hard to hide your QB in the SEC.

I pretty much know this as a fact but AU would have had Wilson if AU would have committed to Wilson being named the starter the day Wilson walked on campus. Gus was all for this but Chiz shot this down. Being named and being the guy on opening day is two different things. Chiz wanted to put his mark on the O and wanted the QB position to be open. Wisconsin told Wilson he'd be the QB from day one. Boom Wilson goes to Wisconsin. This was told to me directly from someone on AU's staff. Not DC. FWIW.

Gus told Marshall he'd be the man day one at AU. Marshall flips to AU.

Another Chiz (Jacobs) mistake.

[McLoofus 35,182]

John just needs to work on his passing

Jeremy is the only one who has an issue that can't be easily fixed with hard work, but they can still be fixed.

I have to take issue with the words "just" and "easily" here. If they applied, I'd think that every P5 program would have a serviceable QB at all times.

Edit: Referring to JFIII only. Agreed about the others.

[AUApostle 7,762]

Each of our QBs has a critical shortcoming or 2 that cannot be coached up at this point. That all goes back to talent identification and errors in recruiting. If you took their best strengths and compiled them together you'd have a decent QB. This is not new information, we've known this since the middle of last season. It's kind of baffling that we again pursued and signed a QB with an achilles heel (JF3).

I totally disagree. Sean and John both can be "coached up". Sean just needs to continue to mature and get faster in processing the game. John just needs to work on his passing and bulk up. All of that is possible if they put their minds to it. Even Queen, though the shoulder injury is a bit concerning, still has potential (though no one knows how much since we've never really seen him play). It would not be surprising at all if the shoulder injury was caused by the fact that he hasn't been able to really work out that arm and was also probably, subconsciously, protecting his elbow. Jeremy is the only one who has an issue that can't be easily fixed with hard work, but they can still be fixed.

That's a lot to fix in 4 months. If we recruit guys without MAJOR issues, then they have time to work on the nuances that make QBs great....instead, we're asking guys to run systems their bodies are not made to run, or to suddenly develop an SEC level of accuracy.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

John just needs to work on his passing

Jeremy is the only one who has an issue that can't be easily fixed with hard work, but they can still be fixed.

I have to take issue with the words "just" and "easily" here. If they applied, I'd think that every P5 program would have a serviceable QB at all times.

Edit: Referring to JFIII only. Agreed about the others.

I'll reference two words you didn't highlight "hard work". If every P5 program had a QB willing to put in the work required to get where they need to be, they probably would all have a serviceable QB at all times... baring injuries.

There are 2 types of great players... those who have natural abilities that are above and beyond their competition and those who work their butts off. Both are relatively rare and those who have both traits are oft referred to as "once in a lifetime". I believe any QB with the skills to get recruited by a P5 program can be good enough to be a functional part of a team, IF they are willing to put in the time and effort.

I actually think, from reading about John, that he's willing to put in the work. I don't think he's going to challenge Sean for best passer by Fall, but I do think he can fix enough that he will be a threat to throw from the wildcat, allowing us to take advantage of his natural talent of killer speed.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Each of our QBs has a critical shortcoming or 2 that cannot be coached up at this point. That all goes back to talent identification and errors in recruiting. If you took their best strengths and compiled them together you'd have a decent QB. This is not new information, we've known this since the middle of last season. It's kind of baffling that we again pursued and signed a QB with an achilles heel (JF3).

I totally disagree. Sean and John both can be "coached up". Sean just needs to continue to mature and get faster in processing the game. John just needs to work on his passing and bulk up. All of that is possible if they put their minds to it. Even Queen, though the shoulder injury is a bit concerning, still has potential (though no one knows how much since we've never really seen him play). It would not be surprising at all if the shoulder injury was caused by the fact that he hasn't been able to really work out that arm and was also probably, subconsciously, protecting his elbow. Jeremy is the only one who has an issue that can't be easily fixed with hard work, but they can still be fixed.

That's a lot to fix in 4 months. If we recruit guys without MAJOR issues, then they have time to work on the nuances that make QBs great....instead, we're asking guys to run systems their bodies are not made to run, or to suddenly develop an SEC level of accuracy.

I think the flaw in your logic is that you are assuming that we have to run the read-option. With our backfield, having a drop back passer who can keep the other team honest would be more than enough for a successful season. Also, I would argue that Sean has no "major" issues. He's young and still refining his skills, but 75% of the teams in the country would probably gladly trade their QB for him in his current state, let alone how he will be as he continues to practice and grow. John's issue is pretty major, but he seems to have the attitude of someone who's going to do what it takes to overcome anything holding him back.

[McLoofus 35,182]

John just needs to work on his passing

Jeremy is the only one who has an issue that can't be easily fixed with hard work, but they can still be fixed.

I have to take issue with the words "just" and "easily" here. If they applied, I'd think that every P5 program would have a serviceable QB at all times.

Edit: Referring to JFIII only. Agreed about the others.

I'll reference two words you didn't highlight "hard work". If every P5 program had a QB willing to put in the work required to get where they need to be, they probably would all have a serviceable QB at all times... baring injuries.

There are 2 types of great players... those who have natural abilities that are above and beyond their competition and those who work their butts off. Both are relatively rare and those who have both traits are oft referred to as "once in a lifetime". I believe any QB with the skills to get recruited by a P5 program can be good enough to be a functional part of a team, IF they are willing to put in the time and effort.

I actually think, from reading about John, that he's willing to put in the work. I don't think he's going to challenge Sean for best passer by Fall, but I do think he can fix enough that he will be a threat to throw from the wildcat, allowing us to take advantage of his natural talent of killer speed.

I saw that part and I still disagree. A guy who is a junior in college and still has fundamentally poor mechanics and decision making is probably not going to overcome those deficiencies just by working hard.

Also, you seem to suggest that the paucity of quality quarterbacking in college football is at least largely in part due to a lack of effort. I have no evidence to stand on, but I would guess that's not accurate. How many good quarterbacks were there in the SEC last year? I'd say 4, but let's be really generous and say there were 6. Does that mean there were 8 rosters just in the SEC without a quarterback who was working hard? Does Jeremy Johnson just not work hard enough?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

I saw that part and I still disagree. A guy who is a junior in college and still has fundamentally poor mechanics and decision making is probably not going to overcome those deficiencies just by working hard.

Also, you seem to suggest that the paucity of quality quarterbacking in college football is at least largely in part due to a lack of effort. I have no evidence to stand on, but I would guess that's not accurate. How many good quarterbacks were there in the SEC last year? I'd say 4, but let's be really generous and say there were 6. Does that mean there were 8 rosters just in the SEC without a quarterback who was working hard? Does Jeremy Johnson just not work hard enough?

Jeremy's a unique situation, he has a mental block. But, yea... I truly believe that if all of the other P5 QBs would 100% buy into what they are being coached to do, and then bust their butts trying to be the best they could be, they would all be good. They won't all make it to great and certainly can't all be game changers, but they can be good... good enough to be a positive and not a negative to their team. Now, if you are like some folks around here who think for a QB to be considered good, they need to be able to carry a team on their shoulders to a national championship... then forget everything I said. In that case, 90% of QBs can work their butts off and never be good.

I haven't heard that John has decision making issues... just poor mechanics. The way I see that, it's as much coaching as it is anything else. Now, whether that is because he didn't have good coaching or he didn't buy into the coaching he got, I don't know, but if he gets good coaching now, buys into it, and works, he can fix that with a combination of repetition and someone watching him to point out mistakes.

[ellitor 33,783]

Each of our QBs has a critical shortcoming or 2 that cannot be coached up at this point. That all goes back to talent identification and errors in recruiting. If you took their best strengths and compiled them together you'd have a decent QB. This is not new information, we've known this since the middle of last season. It's kind of baffling that we again pursued and signed a QB with an achilles heel (JF3).

There was no way to know JJ was going to develop into a mental case football wise. No amount of research in the recruiting process would have found that. Sean can definitely be coached up if the staff believes in him. You don't have to run the read O to be a good offense.

[ellitor 33,783]

Size is overstated and injuries are overinflated. I believe many have just attatched themselves to those talking points to justify their opinions. There are many QB s that have been and are still being very successful with the same size. Russle Wilson is 5'11" 205 and Drew Brees is 6' 210. Sean is 6' 200-205. Injuries? He hurt his foot, was rushed back way too soon which led to his knee. It's not like he has had multiple surgeries and is still recovering.

Preach on Brother Big Bird!!

[ellitor 33,783]

The similarities are many between this Webb saga and suggestions on this board when Russell Wilson considered visiting AU late Spring of the Khiel Frazier/Barrett Trotter/Clint Moseley era. The feeling by many (some still here) was that the staff would mess up the "good chemistry" between that QB batch and even considering Wilson would be flat being disloyal to that group. Whether we were ever in the running or not for Wilson, your QBs are either getting the job done or not. And it's hard to hide your QB in the SEC.

The only reason WIlson chose WIsc over us was that Wisc had veteran and ALL-Big Ten OL coming back to support him. We had issues at OL going into that year. Wilson made the right choice..

Wrong. As WDE already said & has been posted many times from numerous connected people since RW chose Wisky, he chose Wisky because they guaranteed him QB1 while Chiz wouldn't even though Gus badly wanted him to.

[ellitor 33,783]

Why has our QB recruiting been so bad?

This was addressed extensively yesterday. On paper QB recruiting has been fine. Other quality schools wanted these kids. The bigger question is development & it comes from 1 glaring fact. Gus & Rhett have not developed 1 solitary quality QB they signed out of HS as HC or assistants in their collegiate careers except for maybe Mitch Mustain if you want to call it that as much as Nutt & Gus disagrred on how to use MM & the O.

I personally wanted Jerod Evans.

You and me both, brother. How he wasn't pursued defies explanation.

Who said he wasnt persued? I remember ORegon and us on him early, so i dont know what you mean, by not being persued.

We never gave him a commitable offer. Went hard after JF3 instead.

[ellitor 33,783]

The similarities are many between this Webb saga and suggestions on this board when Russell Wilson considered visiting AU late Spring of the Khiel Frazier/Barrett Trotter/Clint Moseley era. The feeling by many (some still here) was that the staff would mess up the "good chemistry" between that QB batch and even considering Wilson would be flat being disloyal to that group. Whether we were ever in the running or not for Wilson, your QBs are either getting the job done or not. And it's hard to hide your QB in the SEC.

I pretty much know this as a fact but AU would have had Wilson if AU would have committed to Wilson being named the starter the day Wilson walked on campus. Gus was all for this but Chiz shot this down. Being named and being the guy on opening day is two different things. Chiz wanted to put his mark on the O and wanted the QB position to be open. Wisconsin told Wilson he'd be the QB from day one. Boom Wilson goes to Wisconsin. This was told to me directly from someone on AU's staff. Not DC. FWIW.

Gus told Marshall he'd be the man day one at AU. Marshall flips to AU.

Another Chiz (Jacobs) mistake.

Jacobs had nothing to do with it. He is not involved w/ the players coaches do or don't take.

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,473]

The similarities are many between this Webb saga and suggestions on this board when Russell Wilson considered visiting AU late Spring of the Khiel Frazier/Barrett Trotter/Clint Moseley era. The feeling by many (some still here) was that the staff would mess up the "good chemistry" between that QB batch and even considering Wilson would be flat being disloyal to that group. Whether we were ever in the running or not for Wilson, your QBs are either getting the job done or not. And it's hard to hide your QB in the SEC.

I pretty much know this as a fact but AU would have had Wilson if AU would have committed to Wilson being named the starter the day Wilson walked on campus. Gus was all for this but Chiz shot this down. Being named and being the guy on opening day is two different things. Chiz wanted to put his mark on the O and wanted the QB position to be open. Wisconsin told Wilson he'd be the QB from day one. Boom Wilson goes to Wisconsin. This was told to me directly from someone on AU's staff. Not DC. FWIW.

Gus told Marshall he'd be the man day one at AU. Marshall flips to AU.

Another Chiz (Jacobs) mistake.

Jacobs had nothing to do with it. He is not involved w/ the players coaches do or don't take.

His point was Jacobs hired Chiz. Cause effect relationship

[McLoofus 35,182]

But, yea... I truly believe that if all of the other P5 QBs would 100% buy into what they are being coached to do, and then bust their butts trying to be the best they could be, they would all be good.

That's a very bold statement, but I respect the heck out of you and will challenge it no further.

[steeleagle 2,945]

The similarities are many between this Webb saga and suggestions on this board when Russell Wilson considered visiting AU late Spring of the Khiel Frazier/Barrett Trotter/Clint Moseley era. The feeling by many (some still here) was that the staff would mess up the "good chemistry" between that QB batch and even considering Wilson would be flat being disloyal to that group. Whether we were ever in the running or not for Wilson, your QBs are either getting the job done or not. And it's hard to hide your QB in the SEC.

The only reason WIlson chose WIsc over us was that Wisc had veteran and ALL-Big Ten OL coming back to support him. We had issues at OL going into that year. Wilson made the right choice..

Wrong. As WDE already said & has been posted many times from numerous connected people since RW chose Wisky, he chose Wisky because they guaranteed him QB1 while Chiz wouldn't even though Gus badly wanted him to.

got it. I agree...wasnt it Chizik too that had to be begged by Malzahn and others to really look at Cam and press to get him to AU?

[NoALtiger 3,963]

The similarities are many between this Webb saga and suggestions on this board when Russell Wilson considered visiting AU late Spring of the Khiel Frazier/Barrett Trotter/Clint Moseley era. The feeling by many (some still here) was that the staff would mess up the "good chemistry" between that QB batch and even considering Wilson would be flat being disloyal to that group. Whether we were ever in the running or not for Wilson, your QBs are either getting the job done or not. And it's hard to hide your QB in the SEC.

The only reason WIlson chose WIsc over us was that Wisc had veteran and ALL-Big Ten OL coming back to support him. We had issues at OL going into that year. Wilson made the right choice..

Wrong. As WDE already said & has been posted many times from numerous connected people since RW chose Wisky, he chose Wisky because they guaranteed him QB1 while Chiz wouldn't even though Gus badly wanted him to.

got it. I agree...wasnt it Chizik too that had to be begged by Malzahn and others to really look at Cam and press to get him to AU?

Thats what's been said for sure.