The Cross and the Confederate Flag

[autigeremt 7,240]

The National Parks Service announced that they will no longer sell the Flag of Northern VA (Southern Cross) or any other Confederate Flag at Gettysburg.

http://time.com/3934...ate-flag-sales/

While I am in favor of removing the flag from the statehouse in S.C., I do not agree with the overreach that is happening but to say that I didn't expect it would be a lie.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Ben....we are up to 56. No problem getting to 100. I will just keep telling Titan the war began about states rights and that should do it. ;D/>

The states appealed to states rights, even if slavery was their primary concern. If the southern states really thought they had the right to allow slavery, I don't see anything wrong with your argument. Neither do I see anything wrong with the arguments against yours. To me this is a long thread of " is it toh-may-toe or toh-mah-toe."

Edited) And if states really thought that they had the right to allow slavery, they were mistakened. Any time a person's inalienable rights are threatened or imposed upon, such as life or liberty, the Federal Government has the right to assume jurisdiction as it is then a federal matter.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

autigrement....not to worry too much. I read yesterday where more CFs had been sold in retail and mail order outlets in the last few days than in lots of years combined People are going to see the more not less. Instead of flying mine one a year I'm going to fly it more. I even wore one of my old T-shirts with a CF on it yesterday. First time in years. This morning a guy doing some work for me drove up with a CF tag on the front of his car.The South may not rise again but it sure is riled up right now. Kind of reminds me of what Japanese ADM Tojo said after Pearl Harbor.

[autigeremt 7,240]

autigrement....not to worry too much. I read yesterday where more CFs had been sold in retail and mail order outlets in the last few days than in lots of years combined People are going to see the more not less. Instead of flying mine one a year I'm going to fly it more. I even wore one of my old T-shirts with a CF on it yesterday. First time in years. This morning a guy doing some work for me drove up with a CF tag on the front of his car.The South may not rise again but it sure is riled up right now. Kind of reminds me of what Japanese ADM Tojo said after Pearl Harbor.

I support your (and their) right to display it! I don't agree with it being on the grounds of sitting government but it should be protected outside of that arena.

[homersapien 12,259]

Yeah, I read it. Not trying to flame the fire again. I just read it as saying there were interlinking reasons, slavery just being one of them.

It seems unionism, economics and slavery all played a part depending on whose opinion you choose.

This kind of hits the point I've made... and the problem I had with homers post some... 40+ pages ago.

Some derp screaming that slavery wasn't the reason for the Civil War is not the same as an educated person looking at all the underlying issues that led to the Civil War. You would have to be willfully ignorant to say slavery was not the driving issue. But to say slavery was the only issue is also inaccurate.

There is a difference between some dumb redneck screaming about the Civil War and it's "real" causes, and a group of people discussing in depth reasons for secession IE: social/politicial/economic changes between the North and South.... And I think, that at least a little bit that has been the problem with this thread.

Screw all the rednecks and historians and debates and study over what caused the war.

Just read the actual reasons given by the people who seceded then fired the first shots!

(Please excuse the shouting. I am getting frustrated by all this debate and analysis. It's not necessary. They told us why they did it.)

I'm not sure if your just trolling now or what....

but it makes me sad.

That wasn't directed to you personally. It was directed to everyone interested in this topic.

It's good that "educated persons" study and analyze the reasons for the civil war, but it's not like it's really necessary for us to understand it. All one has to do is look at what the perpetrators of secession and the war said their reasons were.

Sorry if it offended you.

[AUUSN 823]

autigrement....not to worry too much. I read yesterday where more CFs had been sold in retail and mail order outlets in the last few days than in lots of years combined People are going to see the more not less. Instead of flying mine one a year I'm going to fly it more. I even wore one of my old T-shirts with a CF on it yesterday. First time in years. This morning a guy doing some work for me drove up with a CF tag on the front of his car.The South may not rise again but it sure is riled up right now. Kind of reminds me of what Japanese ADM Tojo said after Pearl Harbor.

[autigeremt 7,240]

autigrement....not to worry too much. I read yesterday where more CFs had been sold in retail and mail order outlets in the last few days than in lots of years combined People are going to see the more not less. Instead of flying mine one a year I'm going to fly it more. I even wore one of my old T-shirts with a CF on it yesterday. First time in years. This morning a guy doing some work for me drove up with a CF tag on the front of his car.The South may not rise again but it sure is riled up right now. Kind of reminds me of what Japanese ADM Tojo said after Pearl Harbor.

LMAO!

[homersapien 12,259]

Just imagine the discussions in 150 years from now on why this Iraq war was fought. It was just 13 years ago and i don't have a clue now.

Just go back and listen to the administration spokesman. They told us exactly why we should invade.

[homersapien 12,259]

Yeah, I read it. Not trying to flame the fire again. I just read it as saying there were interlinking reasons, slavery just being one of them.

It seems unionism, economics and slavery all played a part depending on whose opinion you choose.

This kind of hits the point I've made... and the problem I had with homers post some... 40+ pages ago.

Some derp screaming that slavery wasn't the reason for the Civil War is not the same as an educated person looking at all the underlying issues that led to the Civil War. You would have to be willfully ignorant to say slavery was not the driving issue. But to say slavery was the only issue is also inaccurate.

There is a difference between some dumb redneck screaming about the Civil War and it's "real" causes, and a group of people discussing in depth reasons for secession IE: social/politicial/economic changes between the North and South.... And I think, that at least a little bit that has been the problem with this thread.

Screw all the rednecks and historians and debates and study over what caused the war.

Just read the actual reasons given by the people who seceded then fired the first shots!

(Please excuse the shouting. I am getting frustrated by all this debate and analysis. It's not necessary. They told us why they did it.)

I'm not sure if your just trolling now or what....

but it makes me sad.

I don't know how many different ways you can parse it, man. They straight up told us why they did it. The contemporaneous sources on the matter reflect that. The "real" reason they seceded was that they wanted to continue and expand the practice of slavery.

That wasn't my point at all, but you show what I was complaining about with your post.

It seems we hardly ever get past the surface in any threads, even the 50+ page ones. Can't have a discussion about this because we stay stuck on slavery/not slavery. Can't do it on global warming cause we get stuck on it exists/doesn't exist. Can't do it on Islam, we get stuck on kill them all/don't kill them all.

No one will be able to find a respected historian that says "Slavery was not a reason for the Civil War.", yet we will spend over 50 pages on it, and actively refuse talking about any related topics deeper in thought than slavery/not slavery.

And why do you suppose that is?

[autigeremt 7,240]

[homersapien 12,259]

Ben....we are up to 56. No problem getting to 100. I will just keep telling Titan the war began about states rights and that should do it. ;D/>

The states appealed to states rights, even if slavery was their primary concern. If the southern states really thought they had the right to allow slavery, I don't see anything wrong with your argument. Neither do I see anything wrong with the arguments against yours. To me this is a long thread of " is it toh-may-toe or toh-mah-toe."

Edited) And if states really thought that they had the right to allow slavery, they were mistakened. Any time a person's inalienable rights are threatened or imposed upon, such as life or liberty, the Federal Government has the right to assume jurisdiction as it is then a federal matter.

No, this is not a difference or choice in simple terminology.

The "states righters" are obviously trying to avoid the real issue of slavery. They just don't want to admit it because they identify emotionally with the Southern "cause".

[icanthearyou 4,468]

autigrement....not to worry too much. I read yesterday where more CFs had been sold in retail and mail order outlets in the last few days than in lots of years combined People are going to see the more not less. Instead of flying mine one a year I'm going to fly it more. I even wore one of my old T-shirts with a CF on it yesterday. First time in years. This morning a guy doing some work for me drove up with a CF tag on the front of his car.The South may not rise again but it sure is riled up right now. Kind of reminds me of what Japanese ADM Tojo said after Pearl Harbor.

That there is rite. F all them people who dont like it none. I got my rites.

Its just like the war werent about slavery it was about northerner aggreshun. Bein proud of that flag aint about hatin coloreds its all about my rites.

barry and the libtards have done divided this here country two much.

[TitanTiger 21,320]

autigrement....not to worry too much. I read yesterday where more CFs had been sold in retail and mail order outlets in the last few days than in lots of years combined People are going to see the more not less. Instead of flying mine one a year I'm going to fly it more. I even wore one of my old T-shirts with a CF on it yesterday. First time in years. This morning a guy doing some work for me drove up with a CF tag on the front of his car.The South may not rise again but it sure is riled up right now. Kind of reminds me of what Japanese ADM Tojo said after Pearl Harbor.

I support your (and their) right to display it! I don't agree with it being on the grounds of sitting government but it should be protected outside of that arena.

Plus, it makes the rednecks and mouthbreathers easier to identify.

[homersapien 12,259]

autigrement....not to worry too much. I read yesterday where more CFs had been sold in retail and mail order outlets in the last few days than in lots of years combined People are going to see the more not less. Instead of flying mine one a year I'm going to fly it more. I even wore one of my old T-shirts with a CF on it yesterday. First time in years. This morning a guy doing some work for me drove up with a CF tag on the front of his car.The South may not rise again but it sure is riled up right now. Kind of reminds me of what Japanese ADM Tojo said after Pearl Harbor.

I support your (and their) right to display it! I don't agree with it being on the grounds of sitting government but it should be protected outside of that arena.

Me too!

Heck I don't mind if all idiots were signs openly proclaiming they are idiots. Makes it easier to avoid them.

[Mims44 2,027]

Yeah, I read it. Not trying to flame the fire again. I just read it as saying there were interlinking reasons, slavery just being one of them.

It seems unionism, economics and slavery all played a part depending on whose opinion you choose.

This kind of hits the point I've made... and the problem I had with homers post some... 40+ pages ago.

Some derp screaming that slavery wasn't the reason for the Civil War is not the same as an educated person looking at all the underlying issues that led to the Civil War. You would have to be willfully ignorant to say slavery was not the driving issue. But to say slavery was the only issue is also inaccurate.

There is a difference between some dumb redneck screaming about the Civil War and it's "real" causes, and a group of people discussing in depth reasons for secession IE: social/politicial/economic changes between the North and South.... And I think, that at least a little bit that has been the problem with this thread.

Screw all the rednecks and historians and debates and study over what caused the war.

Just read the actual reasons given by the people who seceded then fired the first shots!

(Please excuse the shouting. I am getting frustrated by all this debate and analysis. It's not necessary. They told us why they did it.)

I'm not sure if your just trolling now or what....

but it makes me sad.

I don't know how many different ways you can parse it, man. They straight up told us why they did it. The contemporaneous sources on the matter reflect that. The "real" reason they seceded was that they wanted to continue and expand the practice of slavery.

That wasn't my point at all, but you show what I was complaining about with your post.

It seems we hardly ever get past the surface in any threads, even the 50+ page ones. Can't have a discussion about this because we stay stuck on slavery/not slavery. Can't do it on global warming cause we get stuck on it exists/doesn't exist. Can't do it on Islam, we get stuck on kill them all/don't kill them all.

No one will be able to find a respected historian that says "Slavery was not a reason for the Civil War.", yet we will spend over 50 pages on it, and actively refuse talking about any related topics deeper in thought than slavery/not slavery.

And why do you suppose that is?

Because people can't play nice? lol

I was going to start a thread on the orcs/goblins from Lord of the Rings, just to see if it would also be hit with tons of "This isn't real!" statements.

[AUDub 11,970]

Yeah, I read it. Not trying to flame the fire again. I just read it as saying there were interlinking reasons, slavery just being one of them.

It seems unionism, economics and slavery all played a part depending on whose opinion you choose.

This kind of hits the point I've made... and the problem I had with homers post some... 40+ pages ago.

Some derp screaming that slavery wasn't the reason for the Civil War is not the same as an educated person looking at all the underlying issues that led to the Civil War. You would have to be willfully ignorant to say slavery was not the driving issue. But to say slavery was the only issue is also inaccurate.

There is a difference between some dumb redneck screaming about the Civil War and it's "real" causes, and a group of people discussing in depth reasons for secession IE: social/politicial/economic changes between the North and South.... And I think, that at least a little bit that has been the problem with this thread.

Screw all the rednecks and historians and debates and study over what caused the war.

Just read the actual reasons given by the people who seceded then fired the first shots!

(Please excuse the shouting. I am getting frustrated by all this debate and analysis. It's not necessary. They told us why they did it.)

I'm not sure if your just trolling now or what....

but it makes me sad.

I don't know how many different ways you can parse it, man. They straight up told us why they did it. The contemporaneous sources on the matter reflect that. The "real" reason they seceded was that they wanted to continue and expand the practice of slavery.

That wasn't my point at all, but you show what I was complaining about with your post.

It seems we hardly ever get past the surface in any threads, even the 50+ page ones. Can't have a discussion about this because we stay stuck on slavery/not slavery. Can't do it on global warming cause we get stuck on it exists/doesn't exist. Can't do it on Islam, we get stuck on kill them all/don't kill them all.

No one will be able to find a respected historian that says "Slavery was not a reason for the Civil War.", yet we will spend over 50 pages on it, and actively refuse talking about any related topics deeper in thought than slavery/not slavery.

And why do you suppose that is?

Because people can't play nice? lol

I was going to start a thread on the orcs/goblins from Lord of the Rings, just to see if it would also be hit with tons of "This isn't real!" statements.

Do it. I'm a Tolkien buff.

[augolf1716 21,977]

wow 58 pages impressive.......

[aujeff11 6,243]

Ben....we are up to 56. No problem getting to 100. I will just keep telling Titan the war began about states rights and that should do it. ;D/>

The states appealed to states rights, even if slavery was their primary concern. If the southern states really thought they had the right to allow slavery, I don't see anything wrong with your argument. Neither do I see anything wrong with the arguments against yours. To me this is a long thread of " is it toh-may-toe or toh-mah-toe."

Edited) And if states really thought that they had the right to allow slavery, they were mistakened. Any time a person's inalienable rights are threatened or imposed upon, such as life or liberty, the Federal Government has the right to assume jurisdiction as it is then a federal matter.

No, this is not a difference is simple terminology.

The "states righters" are obviously trying to avoid the real issue of slavery. They just don't want to admit it because they identify emotionally with the Southern "cause".

I pointed out that the southern states veiled their efforts to retain slavery under a states rights cloak. If they thought slavery was the right of the states to decide, I'd be comfortable calling it a slavery and a states rights issue.

I've read enough material from John C Calhoun to know that they feared their state rights were being bullied by other states because of their commerce, so they considered it an unconstitutional violation of their rights and threatened to secede.

[Mims44 2,027]

Just in case you guys missed it, NASCAR has backed the effort to remove the confederate flag...

What will all the rednecks do now that their holiest of holy's backed the removal?

[alexava 6,976]

Just in case you guys missed it, NASCAR has backed the effort to remove the confederate flag...

What will all the rednecks do now that their holiest of holy's backed the removal?

the s*** just got real.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,776]

Just in case you guys missed it, NASCAR has backed the effort to remove the confederate flag...

What will all the rednecks do now that their holiest of holy's backed the removal?

Boycott everything...but NASCAR.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

My CF looks nice this morning hanging on the balcony of my Auburn condo. AU students saluting it.

Titan......you of all people are hypocritcal for profiling everybody that flies the flag as a redneck. I will line my education and career accomplishments against yours any day.

Ben....we are going to get there yet.

AUSN...still waiting for you to tell me what I "did."

[Mims44 2,027]

LMAO..... someone tell me this is a joke site. I kept looking for the punchline but couldn't find it.

Apple pulls all Civil War games for having the Confederate flag within them.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Mims...have you looked at Apple stock this morning........down in spite of the DJ being up.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I hope I'm wrong but I believe the outcome of all the current flapping is going to be a serious setback in race relations in the South.