Defensive Struggles?

[WarEagle231 52]

In your opinion what do you think is really holding back our defense?

 

I know that we can always blame coaching and that has a lot to do with it. However, it doesn't make sense when successful defensive coordinators come to Auburn and underperform and then go on to have success in other places. ie Ted Roof. Ted is having success at Georgia Tech. I believe Ellis Johnson will also go on to be successful at another school. These guys teach fundamentals as well as anyone. However, there is a perception that when they get to auburn they forget how to teach players to tackle and be on top of their assignment.

I also don't think it due to Gus Malzahn's offense. That is a lame excuse to me. Ole Miss runs the exact same type of offense and they have a much better defense. Alabama is running a fast paced offense now and still doing well defensively. We are not running 100 plays a game and putting massive stress on our defense.

I believe our struggles have to do with personnel. Particularly with our front seven. When is the last time we had a dominate LB or DE? I mean dominate not just good. Name one player in the front seven that offenses had to scheme around? When we had one dominate DL player in Fairley it was a game changer for the defense. Elite defenses have Elite players in the front seven. It doesn't matter how good the secondary is if you can't pressure the QB and stop the run. Carl Lawson was set to be that elite defender this year but he got hurt. No one else stepped up. You can only scheme so much to make up for a lack of talent. We tried to use DTs to replace our weakness at DE and it didn't work.

You can quote the fact that we have had top 10 recruiting classes for the past X years. However, the front seven that took the field this year didn't have the difference makers needed. Maybe next year Lawson, Adams, and Williams can be those difference makers...

[N2AUtigers 5]

Good point, I guess all that can be done now is to try and find the right fit at DC for Auburn right now. You'd go bonkers trying to figure out what's wrong. But the fact is that 3 different decent coordinators have been here and pretty much failed. As most people say, with an average defense Auburn should win every game. Why can't that consistently happen?

[autigeremt 6,805]

Two things.....

1. No pass rush. A good pass rush makes up for a lot of back end mistakes and forces the QB to throw passes that they really don't want to throw.

2. Proper Back End recognition and assignment. When you have an elite WR across the way and you play man to man you must bump/crash him off the line and provide bracket or top side help. We didn't do this a lot this season.

Our LB's need to be more consistent but I think that is happening...it has taken longer than I had hoped.

[N2AUtigers 5]

Agreed but I'm sure these DC's know those 2 better than any of us. Just not producing it on the field?

[Auburn4Winners 0]

You are correct that you can't fix everything with schemes but you can put a lot of makeup on it. MSST defense had a pretty good year, who is their stud? Arky comes on strong at the end, who is theirs? Even UGA in the DC's first year had a better defense than us without any notable stars.

That's why you will go crazy trying to figure out the problems. I personally believe it's a combination of coaching, talent and attitude.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Dominate is a verb. Dominant is the adjective you are looking for.

Adams and Wright are both capable of being dominant, and both have been at times. Elijah Daniel was a 5* who isn't producing as we'd hoped. There are other guys who have been coming on stronger. Lambert was getting there, and then he got hurt. Our LBs have been playing far better, and Kris Frost is having an all-SEC caliber season. So there have been some coaching successes and some coaching failures.

But one thing stands out: we were absolutely a different defense after the LSU game. We were good the first half of the season, we were great in the LSU game, and then we imploded. I don't know if the Whitehead situation was an illness, a symptom or something else, but something happened that we don't fully understand. And Gus made a change because of it.

Also, we need to forget about what happened when Chizik was here. Different head coach now. So forget about Roof and Van Gorder. Not relevant to this team anymore, other than any lingering stink our upperclassmen might've had on them after years of coddling and being taught poor technique. Again, it looked like that had been coached out of them, but then it fell apart.

It might get better with the new hire and it might not, but if Gus saw something bad enough to fire one of the more tenured and respected defensive minds in the game, then I'm willing to believe that coaching- whether it was technique and scheme or off-field chemistry- was a big part of the problem.

[AURealist 2,185]

CEJ's concepts didn't work in real life.

[N2AUtigers 5]

Yes I guess at this point I would rather see an explosive, aggressive DC like Boom on the sidelines giving it his best to excite and motivate our players than a exp<b></b>ressionless guy just standing/sitting there calling plays.

[McLoofus 35,182]

John Chavis sits in the press box. That's not the problem. Kirby Smart doesn't jump around like a madman. That's not the problem, either.

[AEAugirl 9,642]

How many DCs have we had in the past 6 years and how many different schemes have we tried to run?

[McLoofus 35,182]

How many DCs have we had in the past 6 years and how many different schemes have we tried to run?

3

[gottl49129 0]

Nothing personal against Trovon Reed and Rudy Ford, they seem like great kids. But who else in the SEC is having to count on a converted RB and WR (converted this Spring) to help hold together the defensive backfield? Coaching, injuries, some players not developing into what their recruiting rankings would indicate, and lack of depth for various reasons are the primary issues I think. Hoping we get the hire right, and can get recruiting and player development in gear, because I think the D has been in neutral at best since 2010.

[N2AUtigers 5]

John Chavis sits in the press box. That's not the problem. Kirby Smart doesn't jump around like a madman. That's not the problem, either.

Probably not, just would like to see the DC match the intensity of Gus on the sideline.

[homersapien 11,654]

Well the bammers think it's due to the HUNH offensive style. Not sure I really understand why though. The purpose of the offense is to put points on the board, not run time off the clock to make the defense look better.

[AURealist 2,185]

Yes I guess at this point I would rather see an explosive, aggressive DC like Boom on the sidelines giving it his best to excite and motivate our players than a expressionless guy just standing/sitting there calling plays.

Actually, you do have somewhat of a point. CEJ said more than once he was not a motivator and didn't think players needed that sort of thing. Which really goes along with my thoughts of Johnson as being more of an academic 'thinker' and maybe an 'instructor' than a 'coach'. But I'm not convinced your DC needs to be a coach. But if he is not, he definitely needs others on his staff to motivate and to believe proper motivation is a factor in on the field performance.

[AU64 10,122]

John Chavis sits in the press box. That's not the problem. Kirby Smart doesn't jump around like a madman. That's not the problem, either.

Probably not, just would like to see the DC match the intensity of Gus on the sideline.

Smart has to be there beside Saban so there will be someone to blame when a the opposition catches their defense napping...

[Guest jojo1515]

Chizik and Jay Jacobs and co meddled in the defense causing major issues

Ellis just lost it after USM and never regained it

This will be evident if we get Muschamp back and is already evident by the fact that Tes Roof is doing well at GT

[LKEEL75 2,567]

Just my opinion, but our D has several problems. I don't think you can point to any one thing (coaching, players, scheme, etc).

1) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: And yet we can't get better corners than a converted RB & WR (I know it was already said, but completely agree!!). This is a problem either with our talent evaluation or the players that we are getting.

2) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: And we can't believe that we don't have better LB talent. I know McKenzie is a first 3 round draft choice and maybe the 4-2-5 was a bad scheme for him to showcase his talents, but he is no where the dominating player that I thought he was going to be. Yes he has a bunch of tackles, but how many for loss vs for gain. A dominant LB is one who makes you think about your blocking scheme so that he is not getting to many TFL.

3) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: And we can't find the right combination of DL to get penetration from rushing 4. We have really focused on this in our recruiting and lots of top talent, yet none are living up to the hype. I know Lawson was injured and we are all hopeful that he will come back with the vengeance, but what about '90 who?' and some of these others that were supposed to be the next coming. It is hard for me to believe that the lack of pressure by the DL is all on the kids though.

4) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: At some point with the previous three things stated you have to ask yourself where has the coaching been. Yes scheme has some to do with it. Being in the right place at the right time is a big part of being dominant. But who in the world that was watching the game Sat didn't know that in the second half that #9 was going to get the ball. Yet several times our safeties were out of position and CB were floundering. You can't be having communications issues during the 12 game of the year. If you do then your coaches have done something wrong. I know we have changed schemes and staff a lot on the D side of the ball the last 5 years, but as prev mentioned these coaches did well pre & post AU so why the drop at AU.

5) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: and it looks like we are enroute to another this year. So, bring on the new DC & coaches, bring on the new talent, and let's start getting back to the AU of old. The AU where Spikes was killing people. The time where our D was something to fear instead of something to get excited about for padding your stats. The future is bright and I hope that the next DC & coaches will take us to the next level on D. WDE!!!

[wareagleguy 1,393]

I have given this a good bit of thought as well. It is hard for me to believe that these DC's "forgot how to coach" once they got to AU. I don't recall this being a problem before, dating all the way up to TT's tenure.

I do agree with others that there have been some extenuating circumstances, or at least seemingly so; I can not say 100% for sure, because I am not behind the closed doors, in the proverbial "know" or a PTB (except in my own mind!). But, it does seem that we took a left turn in Albuquerque somewhere along the way.

Many do believe (some assert) that Roof's D was meddled with by Chizik. I remember during his tenure here there were discussions that Chizik was having a large say over what Roof was doing (think TF under TT). So, I don't think all of it falls at Roof's feet. Now, why Chizik had some good years with AU as a DC and then not so good as a HC, I'm not sure.

BVG I think is a wash. That whole year was a sinking ship, so I am not going to lay that much at his feet. It seems to me that BVG is an overall good DC, he just chose the wrong place at the wrong time.

EJ has had success in the past as well, yes I know his HC gig at USM was not one of them; but he has a proven record. Maybe age has caught up with him, I don't know. I think they may be too simplistic an answer.

The more I think about it I really feel it has to be an issue with talent evaluation. An issue with evaluating the players in high school and their future potential and their talent as it fits the schemes and philosophies of the D. A guy may be a 5* in high school, but may have reached his potential ceiling. Whereas another player may be rated a 3*, but have tremendous room for growth. Now, of course, the coaches know all this better than I, but it seems there has been a break down at this point.

It is just hard for me to believe that these different DC's forgot how to coach or did not coach fundamentals. I just can't buy that. While it may be a confluence of events that have led to our current woeful D numbers, I think talent evaluation is a big slice of the pie.

Anywho, those are my two cents on it. I just hope whatever the problem(s) are, we remedy it with this next hire. As has been said many times over, if we can just get to the point of having an average D, we will be unstoppable! WDE!

[kd4au 1,145]

I think it is a combination of coaching, lack of talent and maybe team chemistry.Maybe a new coach and a few new players will right this sinking ship of a defense.I've always heard good players make good coaches but I don't know that good coaches can't make players better.

[douggwilliams 61]

I think it is a combination of coaching, lack of talent and maybe team chemistry.Maybe a new coach and a few new players will right this sinking ship of a defense.I've always heard good players make good coaches but I don't know that good coaches can't make players better.

I think your right. We have to have an opportunitist D that cashes in on teams trying to catch up with our O. We need sacks and int. That is about it with what we have on offense.

[AuburnNTexas 7,226]

It is a combination of things last year we had a stud at DE Dee Ford an emerging Stud in Lawson, Owens was healthy and making an impact and we had the energizer bunny in Craig Sanders we got a lot of production at DE. Adams looked good at DT but was young and we had so many other big body DT's Daniel's Blackson Carter, etc who were never Double teamed because of the DE's. D line was tough at that time out Linebackers were new to the system and were thinking to much instead of just reacting. Because of playing so much man to man coverage our DB's who were not to bad last year gave up big plays but D was super solid in red zone CEJ gets credit for that.

This year LB play was much better but D-line was not very dominant Lawson hurt, Owens never really recovered from his injury so was a non-factor no dominant DE's so teams were able to Double team DT's if needed. CEJ needed to make adjustments around his people, Go to more zone to cut down on big plays as MAN to man coverage requires a pass rush and we needed to hide our blitz's more to get pressure on the QB. When we lost Lawson and a healthy Owens this year we had to much to overcome for a DC who was wed to his system and wouldn't change it to fit his people.

When people talk about different schemes it does not just mean a 3-4 or 4-3 etc it is what you do from the scheme you are using a 1 count delayed Blitz from a safety or a CB but to do that you almost have to be in a zone to protect against risk you take when you blitz a DB.

One thing everybody talks about with Gus is that he fits his offense to the skills of his players he makes adjustments as needed. Previous DC's might have but Chiz never gave them the leeway to run the D the way they wanted so you can't compare them to CEJ who was given autonomy as the DC with Gus.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

We can say that we had a top ten recruiting class for x number of years but take away the O recruits and how good were those D recruits...if they are great then we either have a problem with their potential, just didn't pick it up or coaching...I know a lot of ifs etc but none of us really know what is happening day to day there and team chemistry plays a large roll in gelling and picking up for each other...I think that what ever the combination that we have had over the past couple of years has caught up to us. I really hope that we get a DC that is aggressive and has our guys laying the wood. If we get that we can be in the hunt year in and year out...

[subterranean_jack 112]

Having watched SEC football for more than 4 decades, I hate to point out the painful truth that the majority of the problem is simply lack of talent. State institutions like UAT, LSU, Georgia, and Florida, mostly, get their pick of in-state and regional talent. Every year Auburn gets 1-2 really good defensive players to commit and is runner-up for most of the ones they desperately need. It has largely been this way as long as I can remember, on both offense and defense. Some recruiting classes are better than others, but Auburn is a tough place to recruit.

Under Tuberville, the offense was boring and uninspired, except for a few good years it was mediocre at best. When Chizik & Malzahn were hired, there was a mandate to change the culture and recruit better offensive players. A huge emphasis was placed on improving the offense. This has been accomplished. Malzahn is one of the most forward-thinking offensive coaches in the game.

However, there has been a lack of success on defense recently because (1) the need was so great on offense that recruiting emphasis was shifted in that direction for a while (2) since Muschamp left the replacements have mostly been past-their-prime coaches who have not possessed the charisma to attract top talent (3) the depth has been so poor that when a player screws up there isn't a similar talent breathing down his neck threatening to take his job (4) maybe Auburn gets a defensive player into the first couple rounds of the NFL draft once every 2-3 years, not 4-5 annually like the cross-state rival, and this a detractor for potential recruits.

In nearly every case, it takes 2-3 years to develop a defensive recruit into a dominating SEC player. The current roster has a sprinkling of solid defensive talent, but there just isn't enough to turn the ship around in 1-2 seasons. There can be improvement, but it takes time and talent to build a dominating defense, and most head coaches don't have that kind of time to wait for results otherwise they get fired. I really don't envy the position in which Malzahn now finds himself.

This is his first crucial decision and possibly most critical hire during his Auburn tenure, not to-date, but for the entire time he will be at Auburn. Malzahn knows he needs fast improvement, and that is going to be very difficult with the talent on the roster that we have seen on the field. Maybe some of the younger players will develop, maybe they will not, no one can say for sure. So, Malzahn is going to have to bring in a DC with a skill set similar to Muschamp, although Muschamp himself may not be the best candidate, but it needs to be someone young enough to relate to the recruits, knowledgable enough to coach up the talent, and demanding enough to get the most out of the players he has. Anything short of this and a poor choice could very well lead to Malzahn's dismissal.

Past Auburn coaches have been too quick to settle on a name coach and disregard other factors. I think Malzahn is smarter than his predecessors in this regard and will attempt to hire the best talent available. Whether that talent is interested in coming to Auburn is another matter. The pay will be good, but it is going to be a tough situation for any coach, and maintaining a consistency in the SEC West with all the difficulties mention above will be a harsh challenge that only a handful of coaches will be willing to consider.

I think the best we can hope for is that Malzahn makes a good hire and there will be noticeable improvement toward achieving a dominating defense in 2-3 years. A one-year turnaround is highly unlikely without a serious infusion of talent.

[milehighfan 1,240]

It was obvious, at least to me, the three biggest problems with the defense were talent, coaching and chemistry. Over the past three to four years, how many games did Auburn have to make adjustments at the half before they got the opposing offense figured out? During the first half of this season it appeared the defense was turning the corner, especially after the LSU game.

But then came the meat of the schedule, or in other words, the better teams and a blind man could see in a heart beat our talent level on defense was lacking. Texas A&M comes to Jordan-Hare and starts a freshman QB who throws four first half touchdowns. Of course we all know what happened in the last two games, the defense couldn't spell stop, let alone do it.

So now that brings us to the latest DC hire. I don't know if it will be Muschamp or not but I do hope whoever it is will be able to bring a system to Auburn that will put the fear of GOD into opposing offenses. We will see what we will see.