How Do We Combat This?

[homersapien 12,172]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

[TheBlueVue 177]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

[homersapien 12,172]

In either case you are comparing post WWII Europe to Iraq. You are presenting what we did in Europe as an appropriate example to what we should have done in Iraq. That's a comparison.

No actually what I am saying is there are vast resources already deployed abroad that could have easily been redeployed w/o enormous expense to the country to leave behind a sufficient number of troops to maintain the peace that had been won with tremendous sacrifice of blood and treasure as opposed to simply packing our s*** and going home but i expect you to twist an interpretation out of my posts that best serve your arguments..no problem.

So you are suggesting we should have re-deployed our European military resources to the Middle East?

What I am suggesting is that there is no excuse, budgetary or otherwise, for simply packing our s*** and leaving.

So, in other words, you think we should still be in Iraq as occupiers regardless of whether or not the Iraqi government wanted us there. Correct?

Only with a sufficient status of forces to maintain the peace, not with 90,000 troops but, spin anyway you need to make the current mess look more desirable.

The current mess is more desirable if the option is to have us in the middle of it, which means we would necessarily be taking the sides of the Shia.

I don't think you really understand the politics of the situation.

Of course you'd take that position.It fits in nicely and simply reflects your super inflated opinion of yourself. Maliki is a shia and he wanted more power In fact one of the 1st things he did when we pulled out was have his sunni second in command thrown in jail.

BTW, in my view, leaving behind a status of forces would have been to MAINTAIN the PEACE, NOT TAKE SIDES. That is possible, you know?That peace had been won through tremendous sacrifice of blood and treasure and Im not as eager to discount what our military men and women went through in Iraq for political expediency like you are.

Conversely, I think you'd argue with your mother and end up letting her know, as well, how much smarter you are than she is

How can we "maintain the peace" by propping up a sectarian government who doesn't want us there and has no interest in forming a coalition?

What good is a "peace" that has to maintained by force from an outsider? How long would we need to stay there? Decades or centuries? The very idea is absurd.

And really, was there ever "peace" even while we were there?

Finally, your personal insults aren't adding anything to the discussion. They just accentuate your lack of a serious argument.

By continuing to do the same things we did that achieved the peace and the military sacrifices were great as were the financial commitments.

And yes, there was peace there, especially by contrast to whats going on now. There were no terrorist activities, no daily beheadings and no mass murders and certainly no overt actions of war.

Our occupation of Iraq cost about 43 US soldiers killed /per month (not including wounded).

Setting financial costs aside, is that acceptable price for us to pay for Iraqi "peace"?

If our occupation is required for "peace" how could we ever leave without seeing said "peace" disappear?

Would there be a maximum time limit to your continued occupation?

I must admit, I find this willingness to piss away blood and treasure in the ME a rather remarkable position for self-proclaimed "conservatives" to take considering they are so against investing merely treasure alone for the betterment of our own people.

Im not going to put a value on the lives of american military personnel for the purpose of debating in a politics forum. Just seems kind of crass to me but that's just me.

Well that's highly irresponsible of you and is indicative of the sort of thinking that got us into Iraq to begin with.

While this may be a political forum, the options we are debating are very real. You can't avoid that reality if you want to seriously argue them.

It's interesting to see that in the final analysis, you are not "conservative" at all. You are willing to spend American lives on a half-baked idea that we will bring freedom and peace to the ME if only we commit enough blood and treasure. That's the sort of ridiculous idealism so many conservatives like to ascribe to liberals.

Once again you can hope as hard as you wish that I embrace your version of what I believe but you'd end up looking foolish as you usually do. I figure only a leftist dilettante would qualify the containment of terrorism as "ridiculous idealism"

Nice distortion of my statements.

Keeping the peace in Iraq via US occupation is what I consider to be ridiculous idealism. That is what we are discussing and you are the one who proposed it. It is quite distinct from the "containment of terrorism". Containment of terrorism doesn't necessarily require taking sides in a civil war.

In fact, your use of "terrorism" is just a way of avoiding the term civil war. Both sides of any civil war typically practice terrorism - even the side we might (foolishly) choose to support.

[homersapien 12,172]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

[TheBlueVue 177]

"Containment of terrorism doesn't necessarily require taking sides in a civil war."

You struggle with reality dont you? Nobody BUT YOU has said a damned thing about taking sides. Quite to the contrary, its precisely that reason that I believe going back is an untenable option for the US now.

I realize you have worked up this image in your mind of what I believe and you're obviously going to remain committed to that, no matter how ridiculous it ends up making your arguments look. Especially when you're using things I have already said that defy your argument, or, maybe you can show me where I argued we need to either go back now or, that we need to take sides...again being honest, which you struggle with, wont allow you to continue accusing me of subscribing to either.

[TheBlueVue 177]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

[homersapien 12,172]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

Not even the military has said he qualifies as a deserter. For all you know he had a crazy spell, wandered off and was kidnapped.

You are judging him solely on the basis of your political prejudice. You are using him to bash Obama without considering you may be wrong and giving him the benefit of doubt. Even the military leadership has stressed their intent to bring everyone back before passing judgment. Apparently you would have left him there based on heresay evidence and because that story suits your political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[homersapien 12,172]

"Containment of terrorism doesn't necessarily require taking sides in a civil war."

You struggle with reality dont you? Nobody BUT YOU has said a damned thing about taking sides. Quite to the contrary, its precisely that reason that I believe going back is an untenable option for the US now.

How could we not be taking sides if we remain in Iraq in support of the government which represents the Shia sect only?

And that would have been the case had we not left in the first place. Do you not understand that?

[homersapien 12,172]

I realize you have worked up this image in your mind of what I believe and you're obviously going to remain committed to that, no matter how ridiculous it ends up making your arguments look. Especially when you're using things I have already said that defy your argument, or, maybe you can show me where I argued we need to either go back now or, that we need to take sides...again being honest, which you struggle with, wont allow you to continue accusing me of subscribing to either.

Is this where you start backing off and denying your own posts? Well, It won't be the first time.

Otherwise, this post is gibberish. I can't make sense of it.

[TheBlueVue 177]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

Not even the military has said he qualifies as a deserter. For all you know he had a crazy spell, wandered off and was kidnapped.

You are judging him solely on the basis of your political prejudice. You are using him to bash Obama without considering you may be wrong and giving him the benefit of doubt. Even the military leadership has stressed their intent to bring everyone back before passing judgment. Apparently you would have left him there based on heresay evidence and because that story suits your political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nope I am judging him on the testimonies of 5 US Marines that were in his unit big dawg. They unanimnously stated he should be court marshalled as a deserter and they dont hate him. They do think, however, propping him up as some kind of hero is wrong and spitting in the face of the Marines that were legitimate heroes..

[TheBlueVue 177]

I realize you have worked up this image in your mind of what I believe and you're obviously going to remain committed to that, no matter how ridiculous it ends up making your arguments look. Especially when you're using things I have already said that defy your argument, or, maybe you can show me where I argued we need to either go back now or, that we need to take sides...again being honest, which you struggle with, wont allow you to continue accusing me of subscribing to either.

Is this where you start backing off and denying your own posts? Well, It won't be the first time.

Otherwise, this post is gibberish. I can't make sense of it.

I dont have to back off of anything but this little tirade of your has about run its course. I never stated or otherwise EVER implied, either outright or in any oblique fashion the things you seem irresistibly compelled to accuse me of. I am not surprised even a little with as much trouble you have with honesty, I have come to expect it from you.

[homersapien 12,172]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

Not even the military has said he qualifies as a deserter. For all you know he had a crazy spell, wandered off and was kidnapped.

You are judging him solely on the basis of your political prejudice. You are using him to bash Obama without considering you may be wrong and giving him the benefit of doubt. Even the military leadership has stressed their intent to bring everyone back before passing judgment. Apparently you would have left him there based on heresay evidence and because that story suits your political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nope I am judging him on the testimonies of 5 US Marines that were in his unit big dawg. They unanimnously stated he should be court marshalled as a deserter and they dont hate him. They do think, however, propping him up as some kind of hero is wrong and spitting in the face of the Marines that were legitimate heroes..

In other words, heresay.

But I agree that propping him up as some kind of hero would be just as wrong.

(Does the hip slang mean you are running out material?)

[homersapien 12,172]

I realize you have worked up this image in your mind of what I believe and you're obviously going to remain committed to that, no matter how ridiculous it ends up making your arguments look. Especially when you're using things I have already said that defy your argument, or, maybe you can show me where I argued we need to either go back now or, that we need to take sides...again being honest, which you struggle with, wont allow you to continue accusing me of subscribing to either.

Is this where you start backing off and denying your own posts? Well, It won't be the first time.

Otherwise, this post is gibberish. I can't make sense of it.

I dont have to back off of anything but this little tirade of your has about run its course. I never stated or otherwise EVER implied, either outright or in any oblique fashion the things you seem irresistibly compelled to accuse me of. I am not surprised even a little with as much trouble you have with honesty, I have come to expect it from you.

Sounds to me like we are almost done.

[TheBlueVue 177]

I realize you have worked up this image in your mind of what I believe and you're obviously going to remain committed to that, no matter how ridiculous it ends up making your arguments look. Especially when you're using things I have already said that defy your argument, or, maybe you can show me where I argued we need to either go back now or, that we need to take sides...again being honest, which you struggle with, wont allow you to continue accusing me of subscribing to either.

Is this where you start backing off and denying your own posts? Well, It won't be the first time.

Otherwise, this post is gibberish. I can't make sense of it.

I dont have to back off of anything but this little tirade of your has about run its course. I never stated or otherwise EVER implied, either outright or in any oblique fashion the things you seem irresistibly compelled to accuse me of. I am not surprised even a little with as much trouble you have with honesty, I have come to expect it from you.

Sounds to me like we are almost done.

I realize you have worked up this image in your mind of what I believe and you're obviously going to remain committed to that, no matter how ridiculous it ends up making your arguments look. Especially when you're using things I have already said that defy your argument, or, maybe you can show me where I argued we need to either go back now or, that we need to take sides...again being honest, which you struggle with, wont allow you to continue accusing me of subscribing to either.

Is this where you start backing off and denying your own posts? Well, It won't be the first time.

Otherwise, this post is gibberish. I can't make sense of it.

I dont have to back off of anything but this little tirade of your has about run its course. I never stated or otherwise EVER implied, either outright or in any oblique fashion the things you seem irresistibly compelled to accuse me of. I am not surprised even a little with as much trouble you have with honesty, I have come to expect it from you.

Sounds to me like we are almost done.

Oh we'll never be done. You'll have to prove the superiority of your positions everyday and you work at it with great vigor and diligence...I give you credit for that.

[TheBlueVue 177]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

Not even the military has said he qualifies as a deserter. For all you know he had a crazy spell, wandered off and was kidnapped.

You are judging him solely on the basis of your political prejudice. You are using him to bash Obama without considering you may be wrong and giving him the benefit of doubt. Even the military leadership has stressed their intent to bring everyone back before passing judgment. Apparently you would have left him there based on heresay evidence and because that story suits your political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nope I am judging him on the testimonies of 5 US Marines that were in his unit big dawg. They unanimnously stated he should be court marshalled as a deserter and they dont hate him. They do think, however, propping him up as some kind of hero is wrong and spitting in the face of the Marines that were legitimate heroes..

In other words, heresay.

But I agree that propping him up as some kind of hero would be just as wrong.

(Does the hip slang mean you are running out material?)

Well, there's heresay and then there's heresay. The problem with trying to claim this is just heresay is that the Pentagon KNOWS he is a deserter. Heresay that!

[icanthearyou 4,468]

I realize you have worked up this image in your mind of what I believe and you're obviously going to remain committed to that, no matter how ridiculous it ends up making your arguments look. Especially when you're using things I have already said that defy your argument, or, maybe you can show me where I argued we need to either go back now or, that we need to take sides...again being honest, which you struggle with, wont allow you to continue accusing me of subscribing to either.

Is this where you start backing off and denying your own posts? Well, It won't be the first time.

Otherwise, this post is gibberish. I can't make sense of it.

I dont have to back off of anything but this little tirade of your has about run its course. I never stated or otherwise EVER implied, either outright or in any oblique fashion the things you seem irresistibly compelled to accuse me of. I am not surprised even a little with as much trouble you have with honesty, I have come to expect it from you.

Sounds to me like we are almost done.

In all fairness to Blue, he has stated many times that, he does not support any course of action that he may suggest because, barry has left us with no good options. barry has messed up the ME so badly that it is now unfixable. It's over Homey. The terrorist won. Thank yaboy barry.

[homersapien 12,172]

I realize you have worked up this image in your mind of what I believe and you're obviously going to remain committed to that, no matter how ridiculous it ends up making your arguments look. Especially when you're using things I have already said that defy your argument, or, maybe you can show me where I argued we need to either go back now or, that we need to take sides...again being honest, which you struggle with, wont allow you to continue accusing me of subscribing to either.

Is this where you start backing off and denying your own posts? Well, It won't be the first time.

Otherwise, this post is gibberish. I can't make sense of it.

I dont have to back off of anything but this little tirade of your has about run its course. I never stated or otherwise EVER implied, either outright or in any oblique fashion the things you seem irresistibly compelled to accuse me of. I am not surprised even a little with as much trouble you have with honesty, I have come to expect it from you.

Sounds to me like we are almost done.

I realize you have worked up this image in your mind of what I believe and you're obviously going to remain committed to that, no matter how ridiculous it ends up making your arguments look. Especially when you're using things I have already said that defy your argument, or, maybe you can show me where I argued we need to either go back now or, that we need to take sides...again being honest, which you struggle with, wont allow you to continue accusing me of subscribing to either.

Is this where you start backing off and denying your own posts? Well, It won't be the first time.

Otherwise, this post is gibberish. I can't make sense of it.

I dont have to back off of anything but this little tirade of your has about run its course. I never stated or otherwise EVER implied, either outright or in any oblique fashion the things you seem irresistibly compelled to accuse me of. I am not surprised even a little with as much trouble you have with honesty, I have come to expect it from you.

Sounds to me like we are almost done.

Oh we'll never be done. You'll have to prove the superiority of your positions everyday and you work at it with great vigor and diligence...I give you credit for that.

I have decided that I will not be out-persisted.

[homersapien 12,172]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

Not even the military has said he qualifies as a deserter. For all you know he had a crazy spell, wandered off and was kidnapped.

You are judging him solely on the basis of your political prejudice. You are using him to bash Obama without considering you may be wrong and giving him the benefit of doubt. Even the military leadership has stressed their intent to bring everyone back before passing judgment. Apparently you would have left him there based on heresay evidence and because that story suits your political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nope I am judging him on the testimonies of 5 US Marines that were in his unit big dawg. They unanimnously stated he should be court marshalled as a deserter and they dont hate him. They do think, however, propping him up as some kind of hero is wrong and spitting in the face of the Marines that were legitimate heroes..

In other words, heresay.

But I agree that propping him up as some kind of hero would be just as wrong.

(Does the hip slang mean you are running out material?)

Well, there's heresay and then there's heresay. The problem with trying to claim this is just heresay is that the Pentagon KNOWS he is a deserter. Heresay that!

What source of information do you have that no one else does?

Has there been a secret tribunal or trial we don't know about?

[TheBlueVue 177]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

Not even the military has said he qualifies as a deserter. For all you know he had a crazy spell, wandered off and was kidnapped.

You are judging him solely on the basis of your political prejudice. You are using him to bash Obama without considering you may be wrong and giving him the benefit of doubt. Even the military leadership has stressed their intent to bring everyone back before passing judgment. Apparently you would have left him there based on heresay evidence and because that story suits your political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nope I am judging him on the testimonies of 5 US Marines that were in his unit big dawg. They unanimnously stated he should be court marshalled as a deserter and they dont hate him. They do think, however, propping him up as some kind of hero is wrong and spitting in the face of the Marines that were legitimate heroes..

In other words, heresay.

But I agree that propping him up as some kind of hero would be just as wrong.

(Does the hip slang mean you are running out material?)

Well, there's heresay and then there's heresay. The problem with trying to claim this is just heresay is that the Pentagon KNOWS he is a deserter. Heresay that!

What source of information do you have that no one else does?

Has there been a secret tribunal or trial we don't know about?

You do realize this has been documented by the Pentagon for about 5 years, right? There is a Pentagon report on file about exactly what happened. He's going to get his case heard but, the facts of it are pretty much already on record.

[homersapien 12,172]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

Not even the military has said he qualifies as a deserter. For all you know he had a crazy spell, wandered off and was kidnapped.

You are judging him solely on the basis of your political prejudice. You are using him to bash Obama without considering you may be wrong and giving him the benefit of doubt. Even the military leadership has stressed their intent to bring everyone back before passing judgment. Apparently you would have left him there based on heresay evidence and because that story suits your political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nope I am judging him on the testimonies of 5 US Marines that were in his unit big dawg. They unanimnously stated he should be court marshalled as a deserter and they dont hate him. They do think, however, propping him up as some kind of hero is wrong and spitting in the face of the Marines that were legitimate heroes..

In other words, heresay.

But I agree that propping him up as some kind of hero would be just as wrong.

(Does the hip slang mean you are running out material?)

Well, there's heresay and then there's heresay. The problem with trying to claim this is just heresay is that the Pentagon KNOWS he is a deserter. Heresay that!

What source of information do you have that no one else does?

Has there been a secret tribunal or trial we don't know about?

You do realize this has been documented by the Pentagon for about 5 years, right? There is a Pentagon report on file about exactly what happened. He's going to get his case heard but, the facts of it are pretty much already on record.

Has the Pentagon determined he is a deserter, yes or no?

[TheBlueVue 177]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

Not even the military has said he qualifies as a deserter. For all you know he had a crazy spell, wandered off and was kidnapped.

You are judging him solely on the basis of your political prejudice. You are using him to bash Obama without considering you may be wrong and giving him the benefit of doubt. Even the military leadership has stressed their intent to bring everyone back before passing judgment. Apparently you would have left him there based on heresay evidence and because that story suits your political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nope I am judging him on the testimonies of 5 US Marines that were in his unit big dawg. They unanimnously stated he should be court marshalled as a deserter and they dont hate him. They do think, however, propping him up as some kind of hero is wrong and spitting in the face of the Marines that were legitimate heroes..

In other words, heresay.

But I agree that propping him up as some kind of hero would be just as wrong.

(Does the hip slang mean you are running out material?)

Well, there's heresay and then there's heresay. The problem with trying to claim this is just heresay is that the Pentagon KNOWS he is a deserter. Heresay that!

What source of information do you have that no one else does?

Has there been a secret tribunal or trial we don't know about?

You do realize this has been documented by the Pentagon for about 5 years, right? There is a Pentagon report on file about exactly what happened. He's going to get his case heard but, the facts of it are pretty much already on record.

Has the Pentagon determined he is a deserter, yes or no?

LOL. They have the facts on record. Do you honestly believe GIs walk off deployment in Afghanistan and it isn't investigated until they KNOW everything about what happened? Argue until the Arctic thaws and play dumb like your beloved pres does, the guy is a deserter.

[VegasEagle 202]

Save everyone some time, and, just except the FACT that he is a deserter.

[homersapien 12,172]

......who trades 5 taliban leaders for one traitor, that is genuinely concerned about the expansjon of terrorism? :-\

Traitor? You know something no one else does?

But it figures you would throw him under the bus without even benefit of a trial considering you aren't concerned with the number of US military deaths per month required to "keep the peace" in Iraq.

Nope, I just happen to believe his fellow soldiers that were deployed with him in Afghanistan. However, you are right. it is not an established fact that he is a traitor but his desertion is not a point of contention. So, in the end, we have a guy we traded 5 taliban leaders for who, at best, is just a deserter but from all accounts is very likely a taliban collaborator

Short version: a US soldier is not worth 5 crazy Arabs.

And like I said, you are awful quick to proclaim him a traitor without a fair trial. Maybe he was suffering from mental illness brought on by PSTD.

If his actions were caused by mental illness would he then be worth 5 Taliban?

A soldier signs an oath. Desertion for any reason is a disavowal of his oath to protect and defend the United States even at the cost of his own life. He walked off his post on his own volition and "sugar coating it" with mental illness does not excuse it...sorry.

Not even the military has said he qualifies as a deserter. For all you know he had a crazy spell, wandered off and was kidnapped.

You are judging him solely on the basis of your political prejudice. You are using him to bash Obama without considering you may be wrong and giving him the benefit of doubt. Even the military leadership has stressed their intent to bring everyone back before passing judgment. Apparently you would have left him there based on heresay evidence and because that story suits your political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nope I am judging him on the testimonies of 5 US Marines that were in his unit big dawg. They unanimnously stated he should be court marshalled as a deserter and they dont hate him. They do think, however, propping him up as some kind of hero is wrong and spitting in the face of the Marines that were legitimate heroes..

In other words, heresay.

But I agree that propping him up as some kind of hero would be just as wrong.

(Does the hip slang mean you are running out material?)

Well, there's heresay and then there's heresay. The problem with trying to claim this is just heresay is that the Pentagon KNOWS he is a deserter. Heresay that!

What source of information do you have that no one else does?

Has there been a secret tribunal or trial we don't know about?

You do realize this has been documented by the Pentagon for about 5 years, right? There is a Pentagon report on file about exactly what happened. He's going to get his case heard but, the facts of it are pretty much already on record.

Has the Pentagon determined he is a deserter, yes or no?

LOL. They have the facts on record. Do you honestly believe GIs walk off deployment in Afghanistan and it isn't investigated until they KNOW everything about what happened? Argue until the Arctic thaws and play dumb like your beloved pres does, the guy is a deserter.

That's not a direct answer. Has the Pentagon determined he is a deserter, yes or no?

[homersapien 12,172]

Save everyone some time, and, just except the FACT that he is a deserter.

No investigation necessary, huh? One American soldier is just not worth the time.