What's holding? SEC's Shaw attempts an explanation

[Charleston Tiger 134]

All I know is: I'm gonna yell about it. Lots. Whether or not it is warranted or correct.

It's not Saturday if I'm not spewing half-chewed nachos over referees. Love you, Mr Wagers, mean it!

This is the funniest and most true statement regarding my Saturdays that I've read. +1 on that guy.

[Auburn4Winners 0]

one thing that kind of gets lost in this is the fact that we have multiple camera angles and replays that we get to watch with. The refs are looking real time through a lot of traffic. Some holds are missed, some are incorrectly called, but in the end it usually evens out. The blatant holds on the edge are the ones that get me spitting my nachos though.

^this. The holds on speed rushers that just plain beat the tackles need to be called. I watched Dee Ford blast by the UGA linemen all day and he never got any help from the stripes. I don't think it's part of a conspiracy though.. and yes I also was spewing nachos while that was happening.

[Stripe 5]

What really boils my blood is when it happens in the refs face and he still doesn't call it. Also if it happens away from the side of the line the ball is moving to it is not Ok to let it go. How many times have we seen a d linemen pull and make the play on the far side of the line from his starting position. So regardless of where on the line it happens it needs to be called.

It's one thing to call it a certain way, but refs need to be consistent in calling it...and they are not.

[war eagle6 0]

Shaw's explanation of holding is ridiculous! It's only holding if anybody but bama tries it, especially AU!

Actually its not ridiculous at all. It's how officials at most any level are taught to call holding. He's trying to give you a better understanding of how the call is defined, interpreted and enforced. I hate uat too, but these conspiracy theories are getting old. If uat didn't get called for holding, then that 3rd and 2 play in their game against us with 3:30 to play would have been a first and goal inside the 6. But they call holding on uat (against your conspiracy theory) and we end up blocking a FG attempt.

In fact in our game with uat we had 3 penalties for 21 yards and they had 6 for 45 yards. The holding call that people say isn't called on uat, is what took them away from a likely win in that game. Without it, they are 1st and goal.

Yep.

Holding was also called on Greg Robinson in the BCS game where we had momentum to put the game out of reach which was obvious it was not holding. It is rare for a team pro or college to go a season and a half without being called for holding. Guess who the last team was to accomplish that feat?

I'm not suggesting refs never miss a call. I do agree with WarTiger that the explanation of holding makes sense.

I have no problem with the way he explained it, I just think it's comical and obvious homerism when 1 team goes a year and a half without being called for holding. That's unheard of, pro or college. And where did mr. Shaw go to college?

[WarTiger 4,011]

Shaw's explanation of holding is ridiculous! It's only holding if anybody but bama tries it, especially AU!

Actually its not ridiculous at all. It's how officials at most any level are taught to call holding. He's trying to give you a better understanding of how the call is defined, interpreted and enforced. I hate uat too, but these conspiracy theories are getting old. If uat didn't get called for holding, then that 3rd and 2 play in their game against us with 3:30 to play would have been a first and goal inside the 6. But they call holding on uat (against your conspiracy theory) and we end up blocking a FG attempt.

In fact in our game with uat we had 3 penalties for 21 yards and they had 6 for 45 yards. The holding call that people say isn't called on uat, is what took them away from a likely win in that game. Without it, they are 1st and goal.

Yep.

Holding was also called on Greg Robinson in the BCS game where we had momentum to put the game out of reach which was obvious it was not holding. It is rare for a team pro or college to go a season and a half without being called for holding. Guess who the last team was to accomplish that feat?

Actually the hold on Robinson was obvious it was holding. Sure it could have been let go, but watch the play again, even Robinson knew he held him.

Wow. Really? If that actually happened then you should have no problem proving that it happened. So, since you threw it out there, I want the year(s) it happened and a game by game account of the penalties for this team for the duration of this period. I fail to see what this has to do with anything, but please show me the proof. Shaw made it clear they penalize the BAD HOLDERS. I'm not sure why its such a foreign concept to actually believe saban taught them to be GOOD holders, instead its a conspiracy because you deem it impossible to happen. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I'm not saying it did either. I have no proof either way, but since you are so confident in this, I would appreciate the proof. I'll wait.

The other point is: I realize the topic of the thread is an explanation of holding, but why is this ONE infraction being singled out against a team. They way you make it sound, uat never gets penalized for anything and that couldn't be further from the truth.

[Auctoritas 2,894]

WT, I am right there with you. Bama holds, but Saban has realized where the edge of the rule is, where the holes it in are, and then trains his players to run up right against it. It's no different than teaching any other technique - repetition in practice and small adjustments.

Now, the irony: Saban is mad at CGM for doing the same thing. CGM figured out where the edge of the rule regarding pace and play clock, what the weakness is, and then operates within the scope of those rules (at the very edge of them). I think it's kinda funny.

Carry on!

[war eagle6 0]

Shaw's explanation of holding is ridiculous! It's only holding if anybody but bama tries it, especially AU!

Actually its not ridiculous at all. It's how officials at most any level are taught to call holding. He's trying to give you a better understanding of how the call is defined, interpreted and enforced. I hate uat too, but these conspiracy theories are getting old. If uat didn't get called for holding, then that 3rd and 2 play in their game against us with 3:30 to play would have been a first and goal inside the 6. But they call holding on uat (against your conspiracy theory) and we end up blocking a FG attempt.

In fact in our game with uat we had 3 penalties for 21 yards and they had 6 for 45 yards. The holding call that people say isn't called on uat, is what took them away from a likely win in that game. Without it, they are 1st and goal.

Yep.

Holding was also called on Greg Robinson in the BCS game where we had momentum to put the game out of reach which was obvious it was not holding. It is rare for a team pro or college to go a season and a half without being called for holding. Guess who the last team was to accomplish that feat?

Actually the hold on Robinson was obvious it was holding. Sure it could have been let go, but watch the play again, even Robinson knew he held him.

Wow. Really? If that actually happened then you should have no problem proving that it happened. So, since you threw it out there, I want the year(s) it happened and a game by game account of the penalties for this team for the duration of this period. I fail to see what this has to do with anything, but please show me the proof. Shaw made it clear they penalize the BAD HOLDERS. I'm not sure why its such a foreign concept to actually believe saban taught them to be GOOD holders, instead its a conspiracy because you deem it impossible to happen. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I'm not saying it did either. I have no proof either way, but since you are so confident in this, I would appreciate the proof. I'll wait.

The other point is: I realize the topic of the thread is an explanation of holding, but why is this ONE infraction being singled out against a team. They way you make it sound, uat never gets penalized for anything and that couldn't be further from the truth.

well, for your information IT HAPPENED. They went 42 quarters without a holding penalty, Oct 3rd 2009-sept 15th 2010. Just because u didn't know doesn't mean it didn't happen. Whether u believe it or not THEY DO GET FAVORABLE CALLS FROM THE SHAW LED REFS. Here's more proof, since Saban first arrived at bama. In 2006 bama was the most penalized team in sec. Sabans first five years: Rank Team G Pen Pen. Yds Pen./G Yards/G

1 Alabama 69 295 2,444 4.28 35.42

2 Kentucky 63 313 2,739 4.97 43.48

3 Miss State 63 334 2,742 5.30 43.52

4 Ole Miss 63 348 2,988 5.52 47.43

5 Tennessee 62 356 2,819 5.74 45.47

6 Vanderbilt 63 356 2,846 5.65 45.17

7 S Carolina 66 374 3,076 5.67 46.61

8 Auburn 64 400 3,437 6.25 53.70

9 Arkansas 63 421 3,215 6.68 51.03

10 LSU 66 425 3,340 6.44 50.61

11 Georgia 67 467 3,774 6.97 56.33

12 Florida 67 503 3,987 7.51 59.51

Missouri* 12 67 519 5.58 43.25

Texas A&M* 13 80 735 6.15 56.54 Look how many yds AU has with fewer games played compared to bama. TRUTH!!