It's time for the defense to carry it's weight

[AU-24 3,128]

I'm no stat and certainly no expert but does an extra 10 snaps per game (2004 compared to 2013) really put the D in that big of a hole?

So one more 3rd down stop per game and we are down to only 6 more snaps per game (2004 compared to 2013) and possibly less? IMO a small price to pay for all of the points our O puts up!

I agree Ellis was a great hire and he did wonders as the season wore on last year. At the same time, as the title says: it is time for the D to carry it's weight!

[AURex 2,214]

Certainly everyone here would prefer that Auburn's defense improve, and I think it will over the next few years as the defensive recruiting classes mature.

One important variable has changed from 2004 to present. More teams today run up-tempo and wide open offenses than in 2004. I'm not saying these teams in particular are the reason Auburn is performing less well on defense. But the strategies and personnel for stopping the mauler offenses and the spread/speed offenses are just different. It's hard to do both well. Even Bama, which consistently fields very good defenses, found it difficult to stop TA&M and Auburn. They just weren't built for it.

That's why I think depth and players with different strengths are so important in defenses today. Auburn is getting there, I think, under CEJ's leadership.

[Mikey 16,781]

I'm not Stat and don't pretend to be, by a long shot. I do know this: Last year, in our six biggest games we gave up 35, 41, 38, 28, 42 and 34 points. If that happens again we won't get back to Atlanta.

I hope and expect to see defensive improvement this year too, but you are wrong. With an improved offense, we can and will outscore opponents even when we give up 40 points. We all want to see better defense, but if it doesn't happen I wouldn't give up on winning it all just yet.

You have already been responded to very nicely by a couple of others, but just look at the string of scores we gave up to our top six opponents. Now, think of what had to happen at the end to win against aTm, UGA and UAT. Those endings are extremely unlikely to happen our way again.

Ergo, unless our defense improves we won't be back in Atlanta.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

The one thing Stat didn't mention about the 2004 team that made them such a juggernaut.... 4 rushing touchdowns... TOTAL. They allowed 4 rushing touchdowns in the entire season. You can give up yards by the handful, as long as you can stop the home run plays and man up in the red zone. The 2004 defense owned the red zone on the ground.

That's what I'd love to see our D do more than anything else... develop an impenetrable wall when it comes to rushing touchdowns. Make them beat us in the air and you get a lot more chances for a takeaway. Then, add a good push on the line (you know... like the 2005 Iron Bowl) and Auburn's D becomes an opponents nightmare instead of a question mark.

[aucanucktiger 1,857]

Ole Ellis didn't inherit many experienced, talented guys and what he got was less than suited for his vaunted (some might say overhyped) "star" system. Give him full credit for overseeing the recruitement of top shelf D talent but based on his van Gorder-like history of occasionally taking a season off professionally...while being paid...IMO Johnson was a "wait & see" hire. The jury's about to come back in. For argument sake let's agree Gusball impacts the D but to say it impacts it enough to make last year's D similar in some key stats to the horrific 2012 D and look like it did late in the game (late in the season) against Georgia, is disengenuous. Ellis is a staff assembly maestro (a la Chizik & Tubberville...whose D minds btw make Ellis a deer in headlights) and the off the charts recruiters he hired on D brought in players gifted enough to make the "star" look close to textbook. Players that can also potentially offset the dicey gray assignment/responsibility areas the "star" can present to 18-22 year olds against some opponents.

By the end of 2014 this D can become one of our best ever and at Auburn that's saying a LOT. If it doesn't, get ready for Lavell Edwards/BYU comparisons.

[JamesG 0]

AMEN TO THIS THREAD, STAT.

Seems like it's been a decade since we've had a defense people were afraid of. As great as we've become offensively, it's vomit inducing the way teams have been running up and down the field on us for YEARS.

[StatTiger 3,188]

Last season was the Year of the Quarterback in the SEC. I believe 2014 will be the Year of the Running back, which means run-defense becomes even more essential for success. Of the 12 opponents Auburn faces in 2014, 8 averaged more than 185-yards rushing last season. The run-defense did improve from 2012 to 2013 but 163-yards per game is still too high for my taste. it would be nice to get it under 140 this year and off the charts if the defense gets the average under 120. If Auburn can make a major improvement in run-defense, most everything else will fall into place.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

wasn't the 2004 D at least year 2 in the system? Or year 1? I forget...but you have to acknowledge the talent on that team. Compare it with the current talent from 2013...I see a big difference. Also, look at the injury differences from those two teams. I don't remember the 2004 team having as many starters out as last years team did. (I could be wrong on that but don't think so). So if this group can avoid the injury bug this year, we should see vast improvement on the D this year. They should be more comfortable in the system and we have recruited talent. I think we will be ok this year but still will need some breaks and need to avoid critical injuries....

[StatTiger 3,188]

wasn't the 2004 D at least year 2 in the system? Or year 1? I forget...but you have to acknowledge the talent on that team. Compare it with the current talent from 2013...I see a big difference. Also, look at the injury differences from those two teams. I don't remember the 2004 team having as many starters out as last years team did. (I could be wrong on that but don't think so). So if this group can avoid the injury bug this year, we should see vast improvement on the D this year. They should be more comfortable in the system and we have recruited talent. I think we will be ok this year but still will need some breaks and need to avoid critical injuries....

One should also consider the growth factor of offenses within the SEC. During the last 5-10 years, there has been more emphasis on offense and that growth will continue. With that being said, there were 4 SEC teams that finished in the top-25 of scoring defense and 6 that finished in the top-25 of total defense. Auburn was 47th in scoring defense and 87th in total defense during 2013.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Last season was the Year of the Quarterback in the SEC. I believe 2014 will be the Year of the Running back, which means run-defense becomes even more essential for success. Of the 12 opponents Auburn faces in 2014, 8 averaged more than 185-yards rushing last season. The run-defense did improve from 2012 to 2013 but 163-yards per game is still too high for my taste. it would be nice to get it under 140 this year and off the charts if the defense gets the average under 120. If Auburn can make a major improvement in run-defense, most everything else will fall into place.

The good news there is that you can't ask for a better offense to practice against when trying to stop the run.

[caleb1633 1,421]

I don't think a Malzahn offense negatively impacts the defense and the answer to why I feel this way was actually stayed in Stat's original post; Our defense played its worst football at the beginning of games last year. If Malzhan's offense negatively impacted it, don't you think there would've been worse numbers in later quarters?

[AUpreacherman22 3,945]

2004 was year 3 of Chizik as DC. We ran a very similar system during all of the Tuberville years.

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

One should also consider the growth factor of offenses within the SEC. During the last 5-10 years, there has been more emphasis on offense and that growth will continue. With that being said, there were 4 SEC teams that finished in the top-25 of scoring defense and 6 that finished in the top-25 of total defense. Auburn was 47th in scoring defense and 87th in total defense during 2013.

That's the highest ranking our defense has finished in scoring defense since 2008

Here's Auburn's defensive numbers since 2008:

ppg(points per game)

2008: 18 ppg, 15th in scoring defense, 27th in total defense

2009: 27.5 ppg, 79th in scoring defense, 68th in total defense

2010: 24.1 ppg, 53rd in scoring defense, 60th in total defense

2011: 28.9 ppg, 78th in scoring defense, 81st in total defense

2012: 28.3 ppg, 66th in scoring defense, 79th in total defense

2013: 24.7 ppg, 47th in scoring defense, 87th in total defense

[IronMan70 3,321]

AU's '13 defense definitely made improvements from the previous year. The DL, sacks, TFLs, redzone defense, scoring defense, tackling and CBs/Ss making a play on the ball were all much better. We gave up a lot of yards between the 20s but that didn't hurt as much as those "junk" plays as EJ refers to them. There were way too many of them that seemed to come at the most inopportune time. If we can just improve the D 20%, which I think we will, this team will be almost unstoppable.

[tigersauburn217 2]

No in-depth analysis is needed. Our defense has stunk since Tuberville's last season. Had our defense been even close to mediocre, the National Championship would've been ours. The only good defensive performance I have seen out of Auburn since 2007 was in the 2011 BCS National Championship game. I don't know what Chizik did for that one game, but it worked.

The offense means crap to the defense. See Oregon and other teams with up tempo offenses. The offense plays no role in the defense giving up big yardage on opening drives. We have depth and players rotate. Any blame on the offense is merely looking for an out. It's not the offense's fault for the yardage the defense gives.

The only thing that is the offense's fault is Gus thinking his defense can stop great offenses at the end of a game by not caring how quickly he scores. It almost cost him the Texas A&M game. He was fortunate that time ran out in that game, the UGA game, and the Bama game. FSU he was not that lucky. Not his fault that Tre plowed over the FSU defender, but as soon as he did that I said, "well that helps, but he scored too soon." I hated being right.

[JFDTiger80 809]

I hope our defense gets better this year but it will not be a Top 10 defense IMO. We still have a long way to go. I like our players and our coordinator and I think we will continue to get better. We are good enough to be very tough on D line and we are pretty decent in the secondary, our LBs as Mikey will point out still have to show they can stop plays close to the line of scrimmage. JMO.

[aujeff11 6,243]

No in-depth analysis is needed. Our defense has stunk since Tuberville's last season. Had our defense been even close to mediocre, the National Championship would've been ours. The only good defensive performance I have seen out of Auburn since 2007 was in the 2011 BCS National Championship game. I don't know what Chizik did for that one game, but it worked.

The offense means crap to the defense. See Oregon and other teams with up tempo offenses. The offense plays no role in the defense giving up big yardage on opening drives. We have depth and players rotate. Any blame on the offense is merely looking for an out. It's not the offense's fault for the yardage the defense gives.

The only thing that is the offense's fault is Gus thinking his defense can stop great offenses at the end of a game by not caring how quickly he scores. It almost cost him the Texas A&M game. He was fortunate that time ran out in that game, the UGA game, and the Bama game. FSU he was not that lucky. Not his fault that Tre plowed over the FSU defender, but as soon as he did that I said, "well that helps, but he scored too soon." I hated being right.

It is definitely not the offenses fault for defenses giving up big yards in the opening drive... However, if a HUNH offense were to go 3 and out within 30 seconds consecutively.....that could be very demoralizing to the defense. On the flip side, if our offense consistently scores within two minutes, the defense better be in shape. As far as tre mason scoring too soon against Florida State...hey thats football. I firmly believed Auburn was going to win the football game until our defensive backs tackled each other on the last drive

[hutchids 232]

One should also consider the growth factor of offenses within the SEC. During the last 5-10 years, there has been more emphasis on offense and that growth will continue. With that being said, there were 4 SEC teams that finished in the top-25 of scoring defense and 6 that finished in the top-25 of total defense. Auburn was 47th in scoring defense and 87th in total defense during 2013.

That's the highest ranking our defense has finished in scoring defense since 2008

Here's Auburn's defensive numbers since 2008:

ppg(points per game)

2008: 18 ppg, 15th in scoring defense, 27th in total defense

2009: 27.5 ppg, 79th in scoring defense, 68th in total defense

2010: 24.1 ppg, 53rd in scoring defense, 60th in total defense

2011: 28.9 ppg, 78th in scoring defense, 81st in total defense

2012: 28.3 ppg, 66th in scoring defense, 79th in total defense

2013: 24.7 ppg, 47th in scoring defense, 87th in total defense

surprised with the 2008 team's defense. The way that season went I thought the whole team was bad, but maybe it was just the disaster on offense that year that brought us down.

[StatTiger 3,188]

surprised with the 2008 team's defense. The way that season went I thought the whole team was bad, but maybe it was just the disaster on offense that year that brought us down.

2008 was misleading. Georgia and Southern Miss were the only teams Auburn faced that year that averaged over 400-yards per game on offense. The 2013 Auburn defense faced 10 such opponents.

[ronniebrownfan 1]

One area where we need to improve defensively is turnovers particularly interceptions. In 2012 we had only one int and that was by a lb! We did better in 2013, but still not where it needs to be. In a close game with an opponent having to pass a defense needs to be looking for an interception. Perfect case in point was the BCS Championship game. On the last drive FSU had the whip hand as Shug used to say. The only way Auburn or probably any other team was going to stop Winston & company was by making a play on the ball. Dee Ford was our only playmaker and FSU was keying on him. Someone else had to step up and force a take-away. No one did and we lost. Auburn must come up with more playmakers on defense. Guys who can force turnovers that will end drives and give our offense the ball in good field position.

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

2008 was misleading. Georgia and Southern Miss were the only teams Auburn faced that year that averaged over 400-yards per game on offense. The 2013 Auburn defense faced 10 such opponents.

C'mon Stat. So you want to nitpick yards per game. I thought the main stat was points per game. Ole Miss had a pretty good offense in 2008. They averaged 32.1 ppg on offense and only scored 17 against Auburn. That same Ole Miss team scored 31 points against eventual 2008 national champions Florida on the road LSU's offense averaged 30.9 ppg. Alabama's offense averaged 30.1 ppg. West Virginia's offense averaged 32.2 ppg. It's not like we played horrible offenses all season.

Auburn's 2008 defense was good but got no help from the offense. The 2008 offense would score in the 1st half, if they would score, and then not do much in the 2nd half of games and make the defense try to hold onto a slim lead for the whole 2nd half. The offense couldn't stay on the field in the 2nd half. Teams were able to wear our defense down in the 2nd half. Our defense basically knew they had to hold opponents under 20 points a game to give ourselves a chance to win. That's a lot of pressure on the defense. We lost to Vandy, Ole Miss, and Georgia in 2008 even though the defense held all of them to under 20 points.

[StatTiger 3,188]

C'mon Stat. So you want to nitpick yards per game. I thought the main stat was points per game. Ole Miss had a pretty good offense in 2008. They averaged 32.1 ppg on offense and only scored 17 against Auburn. That same Ole Miss team scored 31 points against eventual 2008 national champions Florida on the road LSU's offense averaged 30.9 ppg. Alabama's offense averaged 30.1 ppg. West Virginia's offense averaged 32.2 ppg. It's not like we played horrible offenses all season.

Auburn's 2008 defense was good but got no help from the offense. The 2008 offense would score in the 1st half, if they would score, and then not do much in the 2nd half of games and make the defense try to hold onto a slim lead for the whole 2nd half. The offense couldn't stay on the field in the 2nd half. Teams were able to wear our defense down in the 2nd half. Our defense basically knew they had to hold opponents under 20 points a game to give ourselves a chance to win. That's a lot of pressure on the defense. We lost to Vandy, Ole Miss, and Georgia in 2008 even though the defense held all of them to under 20 points.

No one is nitpicking and I never said the 2008 defense was horrible. Just pointed out some actual facts. Speaking of facts, West Virginia did not average 32 points per game during 2008. Yardage per game is a viable stat but if you want to play the "scoring" game.... The average national ranking of the 11 FBS opponents Auburn faced in scoring offense was 66th nationally. Auburn did not face a single top-25 scoring offense, though 3 did finish in the top-30. More than half of the FBS opponents faced in 2008 finished no better than No. 73 in scoring offense.

The whole point of my initial post was about the defense being held accountable and responsible for their time on the field. Your comments about the 2008 offense hurting the 2008 Auburn defense might carry some merit but where do we draw the line for excuses? The 1993 Ole Miss Rebel defense finished No. 1 in the nation in total defense and No. 4 in scoring defense despite being teamed up with an offense that finished No. 92 in total offense.

Again, I was simply placing things in perspective regarding the accomplishments of the 2008 Auburn defense. 4 of the 8 conference opponents faced that year averaged less than 23 points per game on offense.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

... comments about the 2008 offense hurting the 2008 Auburn defense might carry some merit but where do we draw the line for excuses? The 1993 Ole Miss Rebel defense finished No. 1 in the nation in total defense and No. 4 in scoring defense despite being teamed up with an offense that finished No. 92 in total offense.

Again, I was simply placing things in perspective regarding the accomplishments of the 2008 Auburn defense. 4 of the 8 conference opponents faced that year averaged less than 23 points per game on offense.

Pwned! I am wayyyyy beyond tired of the pining for Tuberville defenses. Yes, most seasons they were pretty good. And yes, in all seasons save for 2004, there was a game or two where those defenses appeared to have no clue. Tuberville: Ten season, no national championships and no national championship appearances. Post Tubs? Two appearances and one trophy.

I'm 53 years old. I LIKE a stout defense. But I'll take the frickin' championship over "I feel great about the defense" any day of the week. (And yeah, I do expect that AU's defense will be better in year two under EJ and better as a whole under Malzahn than any we have seen post Dye. May take a few years to get there, but I believe AU will.)

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

No one is nitpicking and I never said the 2008 defense was horrible. Just pointed out some actual facts. Speaking of facts, West Virginia did not average 32 points per game during 2008. Yardage per game is a viable stat but if you want to play the "scoring" game.... The average national ranking of the 11 FBS opponents Auburn faced in scoring offense was 66th nationally. Auburn did not face a single top-25 scoring offense, though 3 did finish in the top-30. More than half of the FBS opponents faced in 2008 finished no better than No. 73 in scoring offense.

The whole point of my initial post was about the defense being held accountable and responsible for their time on the field. Your comments about the 2008 offense hurting the 2008 Auburn defense might carry some merit but where do we draw the line for excuses? The 1993 Ole Miss Rebel defense finished No. 1 in the nation in total defense and No. 4 in scoring defense despite being teamed up with an offense that finished No. 92 in total offense.

Again, I was simply placing things in perspective regarding the accomplishments of the 2008 Auburn defense. 4 of the 8 conference opponents faced that year averaged less than 23 points per game on offense.

My bad on West Virginia. I miscalculated when I was going through their scores. Sorry for that.

I draw the line on putting a lot of blame on a defense when a defense can't get any help from the offense in the 2nd half. In most of Auburn's close losses in 2008, the offense didn't do much in the 2nd half. The Vanderbilt game in 2008 is a prefect example. Auburn scored 13 points in the 1st quarter and then didn't score again. We lost 14-13 to Vanderbilt. You can't expect the defense to keep the other team from scoring 14 points through 3 quarters when the offense would go 3 and out and punt. Vandy had too many opportunities to score. That game likely ended up keeping us out of a bowl game in 2008.

Auburn's 2013 defense coughed up a 20 point lead in the 4th quarter against Georgia. I don't care how good Georgia is on offense, that's ridiculous to do that late in the game. There's definitely no excuse for that.

[AU Counsel 64]

The major offense/defense interconnections come in time of possession and average starting field position. In a game where the offense scores early then doesn't score again, the lack of points scored by the offense is less of a factor IMO to defensive performance than a series of three and outs where the opposing offense gets increasingly better field position after each punt while the defense gets little rest because the offense is off the field in two minutes or less.

With the Gus offense, the quick strike drives may tire the defense some, but we have enough DL depth, and hopefully defensive depth as a whole if we stay healthy to mitigate that to some effect. Also, our short T.O.P. offensive drives tend to result in points scored, which eases the stress on the defense. The return of Whitaker and Garrett to the rotation, and the maturation of the three stud freshmen DLs from last year bode well for defensive depth. Holsey's return, the addition of Moncrief, and the move for Trovon may give us much more depth in the secondary than we had last year.

Clearly, I'm veering off of a statistically driven point, but I don't see our style of offense as a hindrance to our defense, if we are healthy and naturally progress in the second year of CEJ's 4-2-5 defense.