Lemonier & Ford

[bg5 536]

One thing about a 6'2 240 lb linebacker as compared to to a 5'11 240 lb linebacker is that usually the 6'2 guy is faster because he is leaner. Weight on a shorter frame usually slows you down. Also in pass coverage those 3 inches are worth a lot. Just my thoughts on it.

[mcgufcm 4,109]

So we're all in agreement now. The issue is the specific combination of size and athleticism. Can we stop this silly "we're not big enough" routine? We most certainly are big enough. We may not be athletic or physical enough, but we have the bulk necessary to play at this (or any other) level.

[IronMan70 3,322]

All I think BVG is saying is given 2 players of equal talent, speed, toughness and knowledge of the system, if one guy is 5'11"- 225lbs and the other is 6' 3"- 245 lbs, he wants the bigger LB. Of course if a player is better in one of those other 4 characteristics, it can override the size factor.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

I'd like to see Lemonier and Ford as linebackers and blitzing up the middle a lot more. Hopefully we will.

[gthunder 0]

Yeah, you're right. Our CBs are tiny... where's that sarcasm color when you need it?

I was referring to the safeties, but now that it mention I like the corners the size of Holsey.

[mcgufcm 4,109]

You know Holsey is 5'11" 190 pounds right? You know T.Bell is taller and the same weight? And Davis is the same height only thicker? And Mincy is one inch shorter? Holsey is the same size as the rest of the guys in the rotation. The only one that looks appreciably different is Therezie, who is noticeably shorter and thicker.

[gthunder 0]

I'm glad Mc and Blue aren't recruiting coordinators or S&C coaches at AU. Yikes.

[mcgufcm 4,109]

I'm glad our recruiting coordinators aren't just looking for guys that look good in pads. I'm glad we're going after guys like Holsey and Therezie that aren't going to wow you with measureables but know how to play the game.

I'll take on-field production from a 5'11" LB over looking good in a uniform at 6'3". Call me crazy. I don't care what our dudes look like. Give me 3 Travis Williamses at LB, and I'll show you the best LB corp in the SEC. I just want football players. Not heights and weights. According to his height, Jerraud Powers shouldn't be any good. I mean, a 5'9" or 5'10" CB? How in the world is he ever going to play against taller WRs?!? By staying in position, playing physical, timing the ball, etc. Again, I'd rather have players than measurements.

[mentonetiger 0]

The measurable's are rarely accurate how they are listed in college. I've seen to many times a player listed as a certain hight/weight and it not be close.. I stood beside a lineman from valley head Alabama at the 10 arky game during tigerwalk.. he was a 6'2 280 freshman in high school... He made most of our lineman look small as they walked by.. the kid was impressed with tw but thought the players would be bigger..

Our starting lber's are small.. Holland is probably the closest to what he is listed.. We move our prototypical lb's to de, and move safeties to lb... Owens, sander, and even Ford would be playing lb at the other major programs that recruited them.. Ford may be the only one who's move to de was a good thing for us.. in the pro's he would be lb or nothing..

[alexava 6,976]

holland is farthest from what he is listed.

[gthunder 0]

The measurable's are rarely accurate how they are listed in college. I've seen to many times a player listed as a certain hight/weight and it not be close.. I stood beside a lineman from valley head Alabama at the 10 arky game during tigerwalk.. he was a 6'2 280 freshman in high school... He made most of our lineman look small as they walked by.. the kid was impressed with tw but thought the players would be bigger..

Our starting lber's are small.. Holland is probably the closest to what he is listed.. We move our prototypical lb's to de, and move safeties to lb... Owens, sander, and even Ford would be playing lb at the other major programs that recruited them.. Ford may be the only one who's move to de was a good thing for us.. in the pro's he would be lb or nothing..

This is true. NS wanted CS as a LB. Albeit it was the Jack position. He would be very good at Jack or Mike. Owens belongs at LB and it left us shorthanded when he moved to DE. Of course that's not the only reason for being shorthanded.

[gthunder 0]

I'm glad our recruiting coordinators aren't just looking for guys that look good in pads. I'm glad we're going after guys like Holsey and Therezie that aren't going to wow you with measureables but know how to play the game.

I'll take on-field production from a 5'11" LB over looking good in a uniform at 6'3". Call me crazy. I don't care what our dudes look like. Give me 3 Travis Williamses at LB, and I'll show you the best LB corp in the SEC. I just want football players. Not heights and weights. According to his height, Jerraud Powers shouldn't be any good. I mean, a 5'9" or 5'10" CB? How in the world is he ever going to play against taller WRs?!? By staying in position, playing physical, timing the ball, etc. Again, I'd rather have players than measurements.

Holsey is a bigger CB. Therezie is a special player. On field production from a 6-3 240 LB is better than on field production from 5-11

215. Size matters. Sorry, I'm being as objective as I can possibly be. We all know the Drew Brees's of the world exist but more likely than not a starting QB will be 6-3 or better.

I'll put it this way:

Good Size + Great Ability = NFL talent

Great Ability alone = equals decent college career

Great Size alone = equals decent colleges career

[TheBlueVue 177]

I'm glad our recruiting coordinators aren't just looking for guys that look good in pads. I'm glad we're going after guys like Holsey and Therezie that aren't going to wow you with measureables but know how to play the game.

I'll take on-field production from a 5'11" LB over looking good in a uniform at 6'3". Call me crazy. I don't care what our dudes look like. Give me 3 Travis Williamses at LB, and I'll show you the best LB corp in the SEC. I just want football players. Not heights and weights. According to his height, Jerraud Powers shouldn't be any good. I mean, a 5'9" or 5'10" CB? How in the world is he ever going to play against taller WRs?!? By staying in position, playing physical, timing the ball, etc. Again, I'd rather have players than measurements.

Holsey is a bigger CB. Therezie is a special player. On field production from a 6-3 240 LB is better than on field production from 5-11

215. Size matters. Sorry, I'm being as objective as I can possibly be. We all know the Drew Brees's of the world exist but more likely than not a starting QB will be 6-3 or better.

I'll put it this way:

Good Size + Great Ability = NFL talent

Great Ability alone = equals decent college career

Great Size alone = equals decent colleges career

Good to see you have everything so neatly worked out. With all that "specialized" knowledge Im suprised you haven't parlayed it into a scouting position for one of the NFL franchises or least a recruting coordinator with a major D-1 NCAA football program. BTW, there are some rather large assumptions made under your "I'll put it this way" segment; most of which aren't even necessarily true

[TecmoBoJackson 65]

So we're all in agreement now. The issue is the specific combination of size and athleticism. Can we stop this silly "we're not big enough" routine? We most certainly are big enough. We may not be athletic or physical enough, but we have the bulk necessary to play at this (or any other) level.

Enough Said....

[TheBlueVue 177]

So we're all in agreement now. The issue is the specific combination of size and athleticism. Can we stop this silly "we're not big enough" routine? We most certainly are big enough. We may not be athletic or physical enough, but we have the bulk necessary to play at this (or any other) level.

Enough Said....

Amazing how quickly folks discount the abundance of examples of players who, according to the experts, weren't big enough to play their position, but excelled to be great players in college and the NFL. The one thing that cannot be measured is heart and a passion to be the best. Few things are more common in athletics and life than unrewarded ability; as there are many more examples of players who had the size and athleticism who could not make it because they did not possess the most important thing....the burning desire to be the best. That, a player either has or he does not. It cannot be coached.

[Warnugget 127]

I'm sure if someone wanted to take the time they could find an even greater abundance of examples of players with all the heart, passion, and desire in the world. But not enough size and ability to make it to the next level. For every "undersized" linebacker in the NFL, there are at least 25 human rhinos. If size wasn't important then players wouldn't be throwing themselves parties just because they gained a hard-earned 10 pounds. All aspects are equally important, IMO and the best players are a perfect storm of them all.

This is just a silly thing to debate over because surely everybody here knows that you need ability and heart to grow a special football player.

[TheBlueVue 177]

I didn't realize LB was the only position being discussed...at every position there are those who possess everything it takes and some of them make it and some dont. Life is a funny thing, just as soon as you figure it all out something else crops up you hadn't even thought about. Obviously, football is a very physical game with a lot of brute force involved, thereby eliminating quite a few people who may have had grid-iron dreams. Bottom line is however, predicting greatness, even among those who possess all the apparent tools, is still not an exact science. If it was that easy, every player would be a college AA, a pro bowler and end up in the HoF.

[Warnugget 127]

There was nothing to realize, it was only an example that I made. Could've plugged in DE, DT, OG, OT, C, S, FB, or TE. Life is a funny thing though, you spend it all typing posts just to bring people down and then BAM! you're old, ugly, and friendless.

[TheBlueVue 177]

There was nothing to realize, it was only an example that I made. Could've plugged in DE, DT, OG, OT, C, S, FB, or TE. Life is a funny thing though, you spend it all typing posts just to bring people down and then BAM! you're old, ugly, and friendless.

LOL, I have no interest in bringing anybody down. A forum is for discussing perspective. This thread is titled Ford and Lemonier, neither of which, play LB. I dont spend much time typing so once again your assumptions are wrong but if it makes you feel better to take personal shot swing away!

[Warnugget 127]

I'm glad our recruiting coordinators aren't just looking for guys that look good in pads. I'm glad we're going after guys like Holsey and Therezie that aren't going to wow you with measureables but know how to play the game.

I'll take on-field production from a 5'11" LB over looking good in a uniform at 6'3". Call me crazy. I don't care what our dudes look like. Give me 3 Travis Williamses at LB, and I'll show you the best LB corp in the SEC. I just want football players. Not heights and weights. According to his height, Jerraud Powers shouldn't be any good. I mean, a 5'9" or 5'10" CB? How in the world is he ever going to play against taller WRs?!? By staying in position, playing physical, timing the ball, etc. Again, I'd rather have players than measurements.

Holsey is a bigger CB. Therezie is a special player. On field production from a 6-3 240 LB is better than on field production from 5-11

215. Size matters. Sorry, I'm being as objective as I can possibly be. We all know the Drew Brees's of the world exist but more likely than not a starting QB will be 6-3 or better.

I'll put it this way:

Good Size + Great Ability = NFL talent

Great Ability alone = equals decent college career

Great Size alone = equals decent colleges career

Good to see you have everything so neatly worked out. With all that "specialized" knowledge Im suprised you haven't parlayed it into a scouting position for one of the NFL franchises or least a recruting coordinator with a major D-1 NCAA football program. BTW, there are some rather large assumptions made under your "I'll put it this way" segment; most of which aren't even necessarily true

That wasn't mean to put somebody down?

[TheBlueVue 177]

I'm glad our recruiting coordinators aren't just looking for guys that look good in pads. I'm glad we're going after guys like Holsey and Therezie that aren't going to wow you with measureables but know how to play the game.

I'll take on-field production from a 5'11" LB over looking good in a uniform at 6'3". Call me crazy. I don't care what our dudes look like. Give me 3 Travis Williamses at LB, and I'll show you the best LB corp in the SEC. I just want football players. Not heights and weights. According to his height, Jerraud Powers shouldn't be any good. I mean, a 5'9" or 5'10" CB? How in the world is he ever going to play against taller WRs?!? By staying in position, playing physical, timing the ball, etc. Again, I'd rather have players than measurements.

Holsey is a bigger CB. Therezie is a special player. On field production from a 6-3 240 LB is better than on field production from 5-11

215. Size matters. Sorry, I'm being as objective as I can possibly be. We all know the Drew Brees's of the world exist but more likely than not a starting QB will be 6-3 or better.

I'll put it this way:

Good Size + Great Ability = NFL talent

Great Ability alone = equals decent college career

Great Size alone = equals decent colleges career

Good to see you have everything so neatly worked out. With all that "specialized" knowledge Im suprised you haven't parlayed it into a scouting position for one of the NFL franchises or least a recruting coordinator with a major D-1 NCAA football program. BTW, there are some rather large assumptions made under your "I'll put it this way" segment; most of which aren't even necessarily true

Yep, and I stand by that. Oversimplifying reality is a common practice in forums like this. So many experts, so little time. I hope you get to feeling better. I gotta go now so you can take the last shot. I wont reply so can come away feeling like a winnner..LOL

[Warnugget 127]

So why would you even come to a forum like this since oversimplifying reality seems to bother you. And there's no shots being taken I'm just calling it the way I see it. Sorry if I offended you. I'm sure you're a very pleasant person with all kinds of friends. WDE and I'll be cheering with you when we punch Arkansas in the throat next weekend.

[gthunder 0]

I'm glad our recruiting coordinators aren't just looking for guys that look good in pads. I'm glad we're going after guys like Holsey and Therezie that aren't going to wow you with measureables but know how to play the game.

I'll take on-field production from a 5'11" LB over looking good in a uniform at 6'3". Call me crazy. I don't care what our dudes look like. Give me 3 Travis Williamses at LB, and I'll show you the best LB corp in the SEC. I just want football players. Not heights and weights. According to his height, Jerraud Powers shouldn't be any good. I mean, a 5'9" or 5'10" CB? How in the world is he ever going to play against taller WRs?!? By staying in position, playing physical, timing the ball, etc. Again, I'd rather have players than measurements.

Holsey is a bigger CB. Therezie is a special player. On field production from a 6-3 240 LB is better than on field production from 5-11

215. Size matters. Sorry, I'm being as objective as I can possibly be. We all know the Drew Brees's of the world exist but more likely than not a starting QB will be 6-3 or better.

I'll put it this way:

Good Size + Great Ability = NFL talent

Great Ability alone = equals decent college career

Great Size alone = equals decent colleges career

Good to see you have everything so neatly worked out. With all that "specialized" knowledge Im suprised you haven't parlayed it into a scouting position for one of the NFL franchises or least a recruting coordinator with a major D-1 NCAA football program. BTW, there are some rather large assumptions made under your "I'll put it this way" segment; most of which aren't even necessarily true

Thanks for the compliment. I'm glad to see that you realize I know what I'm talking about. And yes the "segment" is true 9 times out 10. Drew Brees is that special 1 out of 10 player. I realize ya'll hate stereotypes but each position has a stereotypical frame and size. And when you mesh great abiltiy with great size you have the Reuben Fosters of the world.

[mcgufcm 4,109]

Reuben Foster is the exception. Not the rule.

I think we shoud recruit ONLY Takeo Spikeses. I mean, he's the ideal, right? So anyone that lacks his measureables is lacking. Obviously. We probably should've avoided offering Karlos Dansby. He was only 205 pounds coming out of high school. Far too small.

Heck, I can't believe there are guys like Zach Thomas (5'11" 240 lbs) that made it. I assume he's one in a million. What's that? LaVonte David was a two time All-American at Nebraska at 6'1" 225 lbs? Pish posh. He's not big enough. Fluke. Can't happen in the SEC. Oh, I do remember Rennie Curran (5'11" 230 lbs). First team All-SEC and one time All-American at Georgia. Sure, I remember Travis Williams as well. First team All-SEC, 5'11" 220 lbs at MIDDLE LINEBACKER for an undefeated team. But I'm sure that was a fluke too. Oh right, Danny Trevathan (6'1" 220 lbs)... first team All-SEC as well wasn't he?

Hmm. I'm noticing a pattern. You can go to almost any given year and see one or two All-SEC LBs that just don't fit the bill for "prototypical" size. Football players. You evaluate football players. Not heights and weights. If you're just looking for the latter, you'll end up with a bunch of paper tigers.

[PoetTiger 1,901]

I think we need bigger fans..or maybe faster fans...then maybe our fandom would be better....no I agree it's a combination of both, but there are exceptions every year where someone overachieves and outshines those that are bigger and faster....hard work and commitment folks