Maybe I am a little " bammerish"

[keesler 5,961]

Why is it called "bammerish" when you expect your football team to be productive on the field?  There are literally ton's of fans from dozens of schools that expect excellence from their coaching staff who get multi-million dollar salaries.  

The bammers haven't cornered the market on high expectations.  A great example of high expectations is LSU, they've had had a freaking revolving door of assistants over the past 4-5 years, and they are #1 in the country right now.  Their fanbase demands excellence on the field, and IMO they are pretty dang close to it.  Heck, their fanbase wanted their national championship winning HC fired just 14 months ago.  Now look where they are.  So, should we be saying that folks are "corndogish" for wanting to see a decent team play on Saturday's?  

[Weegle777 78]

I totally disagree with saying the fan has NP control over the decision making about football.  ((((If the fans stop follicles.g))))  the seats due to bad product on the field guess what happens?  Lost revenue, which leads to smaller amounts toward athletics which hurts recruiting which leads to coaching changes. Would you buy a car that would not run PR a house with a leaking roof? Of course not. Why should we who works hard for their money that purchases ticlets.to not have a right to expect a good product t off their investment?  Don't get of twisted,  if fans don't come to the games, Auburn football doesn't exist. To say fans of any team has no say is totally wrong

If they stop what? Are you hating on bald people? 

[tbone4jc 2,399]

I totally disagree with saying the fan has NP control over the decision making about football.   ((((If the fans stop follicles.g))))   the seats due to bad product on the field guess what happens?  Lost revenue, which leads to smaller amounts toward athletics which hurts recruiting which leads to coaching changes. Would you buy a car that would not run PR a house with a leaking roof? Of course not. Why should we who works hard for their money that purchases ticlets.to not have a right to expect a good product t off their investment?  Don't get of twisted,  if fans don't come to the games, Auburn football doesn't exist. To say fans of any team has no say is totally wrong

If they stop what? Are you hating on bald people? 

I know, typing on a phone sucks. Makes me look un-educated or something, LOL. Second time I used this android and both times entered words not mean to be used, what do you do ?

[Weegle777 78]

Add another to the list of "Auto-Correct Victims"! 

[Woody1345162856 0]

Auburn123,

Respectfully, I could not disagree more with your post. I, as an alum, supporter, fan, tax payer, and whatever else, do have the right to ask for change. A very, very, very small portion of the money I contribute does give me a voice. We all have a voice. If nothing else I can talk about it. Thats part of the draw of college football. We have "ownership".

Its not really the money that gives me a voice though, its that I feel like I have stock in a program since a small child. The University encourages us to take ownership. You know, the hats, shirts, come on and supports us, pay attention to the game so you can make noise to help us, rally behind us while we go through this with Cam, etc. etc. Well, I think the University has to take the good with the bad when they ask us to join the team. Kinda..

This is more the line of thinking that most of us have I believe. That is why it is hard when Bird and others get on to us when we voice an opinion. (Not trying to point Bird out but he is the one that called me an idiot). This is where I am coming from.

War Eagle.

[DANSBY 0]

I've just found that complaining is a terrible way to fix the things I don't like...in every aspect of life.  I have no problem with people having opinions and such, I just don't get the complaining.  Now, if complaining is your way of venting frustration, then by all means, go ahead...but if you are expecting the things you don't like to change just because you complain about them, you will probably be disappointed. 

I agree that every fan has a voice and I support them 100% for using it, and I love that AU fans take ownership in the program, community, and University. 

One thing I will never understand is the "we deserve better" line of thinking, or the "return on my investment" mindset.   

[Woody1345162856 0]

Dansby,

I think I agree. I give money so hear me roar deal is not acceptable.

"We deserve better" deal....I could argue either way but I can say I don't think we deserve bad things.

[bigbird 60,942]

First off, I've enjoyed reading this discussion.  Each post has been thoughtfull, logical, rational, and respectful. You can't ask for anything else.  I, too, am sick of the bammer/sunshine pumper back and forth.  Its juvenile and completely unwarranted.  So what if we don't agree? We can still be respectful and civil about it. Look at the previous 3 pages.

Secondly, one thing I get tired of is this, and Randy I'm using your post as an example,

I think everybody who posts on here loves AU and the athletic programs. Many of you are alums/students; some of us are fans ("sidewalk fans" as described by some on here). I don't think any of us who post on here thought we'd have an undefeated season this year. I didn't---wanted it, but knew it just wouldn't be this year. But, is it wrong for us to want to see some improvements over the course of the football season? So far we have played 4 top 20---maybe even top 10---teams on he road, and won one of them. The other 3 we lost---problem is, we lost BADLY. Au wasn't even in those games from the opening kick-off, and that's what's gotten a lot of us upset, especially after the GA debacle. I think most on here didn't expect to beat GA, but we expected our guys to give it their all and they didn't, for whatever reason. GA is NOT a great team. They are a good team, but AU made them look like the next BCS National Champs.  Even the 2nd half when GA was simply trying to run out the clock, our defense could not stop them. I think they rang up about 300 yards in the 2nd half when they were simply keeping the ball on the ground to NOT run up the score. I, like many others, gave Coach Roof the benefit of the doubt in 2009. AU was a thin team, mostly due to the lack of recruiting by Tommy Tuberville the last 2 years of his stay at AU. However, when one looks at theh 2010 team, we won the national championship thanks to the offense with some assistance from the defense. We are all excited about the 2010 season, but don't overlook the fact that AU's defense that year was not too damn good. This year's defense is AWFUL, and that's putting it mildly. Yes, a lot of the problems could be the fact that the offense cannot stay on the field long enough to let the defense rest. But, when you see missed tackles and players being out of position, and the secondary  being torched game after game, something has got to give. How many 3rd downs did GA convert the other night? Remember when Clemson converted 10 in a row in that game? Hell, Pat Dye's first AU team played harder and with more heart on defense than these guys do. Why is that? Is it coaching? Coach Dye didn't hesitate to dump some assistants if they weren't getting the job done. Do you remember Frank Orgel? He and Dye were long-time buddies, but when the AU defense under Orgel did not perform up to AU standards, he was a goner. We all wonder why Nick Saban is so good at recruiting (yes, he more times than not lies to the recruits and we're all certain the REC helps out a lot). On a show leading up to the "game of the century," someone said that there could be as many as 27 future NFL players in Tuscaloosa that weekend, and this same man said 17 of them were on Bama's squad. You don't think kids and parents hear that kind of stuff? Do you not think that makes a big impression on these kids and parents?

OK. My rant is over. I'm sure after the time I spent to type this, some moderator will come along and delete it because it's not being over kind. I love AU sports, and want them to give everything they have on the field or the courts. If AU still loses after laying it's hearts on the line, I can live with that.

As a Mod I take offense to post like this.  We don't arbitrarily remove post because we disagree or don't like the tone of it.  The majority of post that are removed are due to violations of the rules or they are blatantly inflammatory and will only incite others. We try to let things go for the most part, but we've done this a while and usually can see where a post or thread is heading.  That's why we try to be proactive rather than reactive. 

[keesler 5,961]

I've just found that complaining is a terrible way to fix the things I don't like...in every aspect of life.  I have no problem with people having opinions and such, I just don't get the complaining.  Now, if complaining is your way of venting frustration, then by all means, go ahead...but if you are expecting the things you don't like to change just because you complain about them, you will probably be disappointed. 

I agree that every fan has a voice and I support them 100% for using it, and I love that AU fans take ownership in the program, community, and University. 

One thing I will never understand is the "we deserve better" line of thinking, or the "return on my investment" mindset.   

IMO, 99% of those who criticize are doing it out of frustration.  Let's be honest, we ALL expected to see a team that would fight to the end for AU last Saturday in Athens.  They had two flippin weeks to heal up and prepare.  Frustration, disappointment and confusion is what sparks the criticizm on here.

[WarEagle10 77]

People look at "bammers", or gumpdykes as I call them, much differently than I do from reading LOTS and LOTS of posts on here about that subject. To me a gumpdyke is somebody who is like a sheep. Everything that bama does is right and everything another University does is wrong, especially us. Whatever their coach tells them is the Gospel. Example: saban actually came out and said that it was the bama fanbases fault they lost to Utah in the Sugar Bowl. At that time I was spending a lot of time at al.com. For the first, and only, time in my life I went to the bama forum at al.com to see how they were reacting. They agreed with him! That was one of the funniest days in my life. I was stunned to see them acting like sheep. Wanting to be the best is not part of one fanbase or another. It is human nature. Every single fanbase wants to be the best. I would bet money you could go to an LSU site this year and see people not liking something they have seen on the field in one game or another. Again, it's called human nature. Some people are just way to sensitive in every fanbase IMO. If you see something being said negative about your school you want to call that person "less of a fan than yourself". The other side can't believe that people can't see the negative things that are going on with play on the field. I do agree that I have seen far to many people called "bammers" on here because they voice their frustrations about things they see that they don't like. That I will never understand. The fact that every person here who is true Auburn, and not in sheep's clothing, loves Auburn to their very core or they wouldn't be spending time here, or at any other Auburn site. It just wouldn't matter to them.

[tigerjeffm 0]

I totally disagree with saying the fan has NP control over the decision making about football. If the fans stop follicles.g the seats due to bad product on the field guess what happens?  Lost revenue, which leads to smaller amounts toward athletics which hurts recruiting which leads to coaching changes. Would you buy a car that would not run PR a house with a leaking roof? Of course not. Why should we who works hard for their money that purchases ticlets.to not have a right to expect a good product t off their investment?  Don't get of twisted,  if fans don't come to the games, Auburn football doesn't exist. To say fans of any team has no say is totally wrong

  I agree, if you don't like what you see, don't watch and don't buy tickets. 

Dont say that.  If everyone who didnt like what they saw saturday doesnt watch or buy a ticket, the Auburn Tigers may very well play the first college game in history that no one watches or attends. That would be embarrasing

[HardcoreAU79 0]

Auburn people have a right to have an opinion and want to voice it in a way that benefits AU.

That is why this site exists, to do so openly and objectively I hope.

Saying take off the O & B glasses is not low rent, anti AU or as the subject says, "Bammerish".

I do not and would not support anyone or anything that supports any institution unconditionally.

But I am an AU man regardless, as we say in our house, if  "we  win lose or do stupid" .

The University of Alabama sets high standards, LSU sets high standards and both support their coaching

staffs with the best tools and personnel available to do the work.  Then they hold them accountable.

Hello, accountable, that is all it is about being held accountable for the results of your work.

It does not matter that you don't have all the tools necessary you still are accountable for getting the job done.  Least @ my job.

If you have to hid behind blind loyalty or accuse others of being un Auburn like,  Get over yourselves.

This is about the best product we can field.  It is a business no matter how much each of us loves our school.

None of us would accept a slip shod product for our own  money. Auburn should demand the same or just

settle for  keeping a good thought and accept any product as good enough.

[Warbird82 160]

OK...I've read all the responses above.  Here is my 2 cents worth.

Those of you who have read my posts (what limited ones I put on here) can probably figure out that I am an optimist by nature.  I choose to find the good and positive in things but don't necessarily gloss over the bad.  If its bad, I'll admit to it but I try to do it in a respectful way.  Having said that...

Our defense is not improving.  I'm talking about improving from the first game of THIS season.  This, unfortunately, appears to be a trend I'm sad to say.

Let me compare another area of the team.  In 2009 I think we could all agree that our kicking game was atrocious.  That was due in part to lack of quality numbers in my opinion since we had to play so many walk-ons.  The defense suffered a similar type of fate that year.  In 2010, the kicking game got better and I would say that the defense improved as well (quality numbers help in that respect).  In 2011, the kicking game in stellar and one of if not the best in the country!  The defense did not take a step back...it took several steps back.  The question is why.

The coaches in charge of both the kicking game and the defense have remained the same.  Yes, we lost a lot of talent off of last year's team...but the kicking game got BETTER!  This really defies logic, in my opinion.

If it were me as the head coach, I would be looking to make a change.  Coach Chizik may or may not...that is his decision but I WILL SUPPORT IT either way.

[tigerjeffm 0]

Auburn people have a right to have an opinion and want to voice it in a way that benefits AU.

That is why this site exists, to do so openly and objectively I hope.

Saying take off the O & B glasses is not low rent, anti AU or as the subject says, "Bammerish".

I do not and would not support anyone or anything that supports any institution unconditionally.

But I am an AU man regardless, as we say in our house, if  "we  win lose or do stupid" .

The University of Alabama sets high standards, LSU sets high standards and both support their coaching

staffs with the best tools and personnel available to do the work.  Then they hold them accountable.

Hello, accountable, that is all it is about being held accountable for the results of your work.

It does not matter that you don't have all the tools necessary you still are accountable for getting the job done.  Least @ my job.

If you have to hid behind blind loyalty or accuse others of being un Auburn like,  Get over yourselves.

This is about the best product we can field.  It is a business no matter how much each of us loves our school.

None of us would accept a slip shod product for our own  money. Auburn should demand the same or just

settle for  keeping a good thought and accept any product as good enough.

 Thats my point.  What i am trying to say is that if we do not demand better when we are getting an unsatisfactory result, the result will not change.  Theres too much "Aw shucks lets stick with this guy.  He'll do good eventually" type mentality.  I gues that the law of averages will catch up with someone and eventually they will do good, but thats not an attitude that breeds success.  If we are tolerant of being mediocre, we can never really expect to be anything but.  If we think we have to be nice and not hurt anyones feelings and not demand that they earn their millions because its not the "Auburn Way", then the Auburn way will always be one that is sometimes not good, usually pretty good, and occasionally great.  We should want to be great all the time.  Its not a sin.  Its the American way

[3rdgen 2]

I totally disagree with saying the fan has NP control over the decision making about football. If the fans stop follicles.g the seats due to bad product on the field guess what happens? Lost revenue, which leads to smaller amounts toward athletics which hurts recruiting which leads to coaching changes. Would you buy a car that would not run PR a house with a leaking roof? Of course not. Why should we who works hard for their money that purchases ticlets.to not have a right to expect a good product t off their investment? Don't get of twisted, if fans don't come to the games, Auburn football doesn't exist. To say fans of any team has no say is totally wrong

I agree, if you don't like what you see, don't watch and don't buy tickets.

Dont say that. If everyone who didnt like what they saw saturday doesnt watch or buy a ticket, the Auburn Tigers may very well play the first college game in history that no one watches or attends. That would be embarrasing

You are wrong there will always be a few bammers there in full war regalia hoping to see a repeat even against samford.

[stryker 0]

I agree with you whole-heartedly. We should always expect the best from Auburn coaches, players and fans. Giving up 500 yards on defense has now become routine. This is sad. I would like to know something and would appreciate some of you statistic guys answering this: Have we surrendered more 500 yard games in the last three years than the entire previous history of Auburn football?

[WarEagle10 77]

Auburn people have a right to have an opinion and want to voice it in a way that benefits AU.

That is why this site exists, to do so openly and objectively I hope.

Saying take off the O & B glasses is not low rent, anti AU or as the subject says, "Bammerish".

I do not and would not support anyone or anything that supports any institution unconditionally.

But I am an AU man regardless, as we say in our house, if  "we  win lose or do stupid" .

The University of Alabama sets high standards, LSU sets high standards and both support their coaching

staffs with the best tools and personnel available to do the work.  Then they hold them accountable.

Hello, accountable, that is all it is about being held accountable for the results of your work.

It does not matter that you don't have all the tools necessary you still are accountable for getting the job done.  Least @ my job.

If you have to hid behind blind loyalty or accuse others of being un Auburn like,  Get over yourselves.

This is about the best product we can field.  It is a business no matter how much each of us loves our school.

None of us would accept a slip shod product for our own  money. Auburn should demand the same or just

settle for  keeping a good thought and accept any product as good enough.

 Thats my point.  What i am trying to say is that if we do not demand better when we are getting an unsatisfactory result, the result will not change.  Theres too much "Aw shucks lets stick with this guy.  He'll do good eventually" type mentality.  I gues that the law of averages will catch up with someone and eventually they will do good, but thats not an attitude that breeds success. If we are tolerant of being mediocre, we can never really expect to be anything but.  If we think we have to be nice and not hurt anyones feelings and not demand that they earn their millions because its not the "Auburn Way", then the Auburn way will always be one that is sometimes not good, usually pretty good, and occasionally great.  We should want to be great all the time.  Its not a sin.  Its the American way

Just one of the so many things I love about Auburn University is we will not accpet being mediocre in anything that our University does. There are times, in every aspect of our University, where we will "slip", but whatever needs to happen to improve will be done. This involves not only athletics, but even in the outward appearance. Auburn University wants to be first-class in everything it does. This is something we will never have to worry about IMO.

[AUinfusion 390]

Tigerjeff,

I appreciate your thoughtful post.  I agree with you regarding calling people bammers;  I don't think that's particularly fair or helpful.  

There are two things with which I disagree with you .  First, you use the word "excuse" at least a couple of times in your post.  The word "excuse" implies that something wrong has been done, someone is to blame, and that person is attempting to shift the blame from themselves.  As far as I know, no one here is a defensive coach or a defensive player.  So, we have no reason to look for excuses 'cause we didn't do anything wrong!  "Reason" implies that we are searching for the cause of the problem as we see it.  One is seeking to understand something rather than point fingers at someone.  Now the reason may end up being that Ted Roof is a lousy coach.  But if that were true, it doesn't make sense to me that he would keep getting hired.  In my experience, there are usually many reasons for most problems, not just one.  

The second place I disagree with you is regarding the idea that I or probably you have the power to "demand" anything regarding Auburn athletics.  I sit on aluminum at the football games and when it rains, I get wet.  So, whether I am happy about a coaching hiring or firing really makes no difference whatever. If I were a multimillionaire and I was willing to fork over 1.5 mill a year to hire the best DC out there, then my voice would probably matter.  The people who mattered at Alabama were the folks who were fine with shelling out 5 million a year for Saban, not the folks on the message boards saying, "Mike Shula sucks."  

You should think more highly of yourself.  You pay money to sit in that seat and get wet.  You deserve to see a good product as much as the people who sit in the luxury boxes

I think you missed my point.  My self-esteem is okay   , but in reality, I don't control Auburn football; nor do I think I am qualified to control Auburn football.  Gene Chizik, Jay Jacobs, President Gogue, the Board of Trustees and whoever else do that.  My choice is simply to buy the tickets or let someone else have them.  I have a good time at the games so I keep buying them.  That is the extent of my influence on Auburn football. 

College athletics is about money, and I don't have enough to buy influence.  Of course, if I did have millions of dollars lying around, I would probably still find some other way to spend them.   

I like this attitude, IMO it is somewhat "bammerish" to use the old, "I paid good money, so therefore I deserve a product that will live up to my expectations..."  I have tix to every home game and do not see a quality guarantee on any of them.  I love Auburn football, but more importantly, I love AUBURN.  I enjoy tailgating with friends, hearing the band, experiencing Tiger Walk, seeing the eagle fly, and just soaking up gameday in Auburn.  I love to see them win just as much as anyone on here, but if the only basis for your AU fanship is the product on the field, you are really missing out on some great stuff (and let's not kid ourselves, the product has been pretty damn good more often than not).  I'm not defending any particular coach or scheme here, but the old "fans deserve better" adage really sounds like our neighbors to the West...especially considering we are still the defending NC's.

The irony is strong in this post  *looks for Yoda emoticon*

I don't get it.

The O.P. authored a post in which he stated that he was tired of people being called "bammerish" when they indicated that they expected a better "football product". Your response seems to be that you believe it's kind of "bammerish" for fans to expect a better football product.

[tigerjeffm 0]

Tigerjeff,

I appreciate your thoughtful post.  I agree with you regarding calling people bammers;  I don't think that's particularly fair or helpful.  

There are two things with which I disagree with you .  First, you use the word "excuse" at least a couple of times in your post.  The word "excuse" implies that something wrong has been done, someone is to blame, and that person is attempting to shift the blame from themselves.  As far as I know, no one here is a defensive coach or a defensive player.  So, we have no reason to look for excuses 'cause we didn't do anything wrong!  "Reason" implies that we are searching for the cause of the problem as we see it.  One is seeking to understand something rather than point fingers at someone.  Now the reason may end up being that Ted Roof is a lousy coach.  But if that were true, it doesn't make sense to me that he would keep getting hired.  In my experience, there are usually many reasons for most problems, not just one.  

The second place I disagree with you is regarding the idea that I or probably you have the power to "demand" anything regarding Auburn athletics.  I sit on aluminum at the football games and when it rains, I get wet.  So, whether I am happy about a coaching hiring or firing really makes no difference whatever. If I were a multimillionaire and I was willing to fork over 1.5 mill a year to hire the best DC out there, then my voice would probably matter.  The people who mattered at Alabama were the folks who were fine with shelling out 5 million a year for Saban, not the folks on the message boards saying, "Mike Shula sucks."  

You should think more highly of yourself.  You pay money to sit in that seat and get wet.  You deserve to see a good product as much as the people who sit in the luxury boxes

I think you missed my point.  My self-esteem is okay   , but in reality, I don't control Auburn football; nor do I think I am qualified to control Auburn football.  Gene Chizik, Jay Jacobs, President Gogue, the Board of Trustees and whoever else do that.  My choice is simply to buy the tickets or let someone else have them.  I have a good time at the games so I keep buying them.  That is the extent of my influence on Auburn football. 

College athletics is about money, and I don't have enough to buy influence.  Of course, if I did have millions of dollars lying around, I would probably still find some other way to spend them.   

I like this attitude, IMO it is somewhat "bammerish" to use the old, "I paid good money, so therefore I deserve a product that will live up to my expectations..."  I have tix to every home game and do not see a quality guarantee on any of them.  I love Auburn football, but more importantly, I love AUBURN.  I enjoy tailgating with friends, hearing the band, experiencing Tiger Walk, seeing the eagle fly, and just soaking up gameday in Auburn.  I love to see them win just as much as anyone on here, but if the only basis for your AU fanship is the product on the field, you are really missing out on some great stuff (and let's not kid ourselves, the product has been pretty damn good more often than not).  I'm not defending any particular coach or scheme here, but the old "fans deserve better" adage really sounds like our neighbors to the West...especially considering we are still the defending NC's.

The irony is strong in this post  *looks for Yoda emoticon*

I don't get it.

The O.P. authored a post in which he stated that he was tired of people being called "bammerish" when they indicated that they expected a better "football product". Your response seems to be that you believe it's kind of "bammerish" for fans to expect a better football product.

Apparently it is indeed '"bammerish" to expect an excellent product on the field in the eyes of some people.  Thats why my post was titled what it was.  that just proves my point.  I must indeed be a little "bammerish". 

[bigbird 60,942]

I don't know exactly how I feel about this.  On one hand I expect the best from our team and think that they should be held accountable for there work.  On the other, I try temper those expectations with the reality they are based in.  I have said multiple times our defense has suffered mightily compared to our definition of AU defense for the past 3 years.  However, I also believe that the defense has had a substantial disadvantage as compared to the offense. So, I guess I'm trying to say that while I expect great things, I try to not have unreasonable expectations. Is it unreasonable to be frustrated at what we've had to sit through for 3 years? No. Is it unreasonable to want a great D? No.  Is it unreasonable to expect a great D with the players we have now? In their current state, yes.  Is it unreasonable to expect growth throughout the year? Sort of.  At the beginning of the season, I talked about youth and inexperience, the inexperience factor in gone. Period.  The youth factor is still very much valid.  When I talk about youth I'm not just talking age, I'm talking about the physiology involved.  Our players look like they are getting man-handled, because they are.  They are just not strong enough to hold up to an entire game, especially on the DL. There are two players, Thorpe and Toro, that have both experience and age.  Coincidentally they are arguably our best players on D...unfortunately they have also made some of the most glaring mistakes.  I believe it will work itself out over the next year.  However, next year, when the defense is on level ground, I expect to see a vast improvement.  If not, my torch will be lit.

I love AU football.  I want us to compete each year, just like UA and LSU have been doing the last 3-4 years. However, with only the 2 1/2 classes we've had to recruit, I know we are still rebuilding unlike our rivals which simply reload.  We will be at that level sooner rather than later, but we're just not there yet.             

[HardcoreAU79 0]

I don't know exactly how I feel about this.  On one hand I expect the best from our team and think that they should be held accountable for there work.  On the other, I try temper those expectations with the reality they are based in.  I have said multiple times our defense has suffered mightily compared to our definition of AU defense for the past 3 years.  However, I also believe that the defense has had a substantial disadvantage as compared to the offense. So, I guess I'm trying to say that while I expect great things, I try to not have unreasonable expectations. Is it unreasonable to be frustrated at what we've had to sit through for 3 years? No. Is it unreasonable to want a great D? No.   Is it unreasonable to expect a great D with the players we have now? In their current state, yes.  Is it unreasonable to expect growth throughout the year? Sort of.  At the beginning of the season, I talked about youth and inexperience, the inexperience factor in gone. Period.  The youth factor is still very much valid.  When I talk about youth I'm not just talking age, I'm talking about the physiology involved.  Our players look like they are getting man-handled, because they are.  They are just not strong enough to hold up to an entire game, especially on the DL. There are two players, Thorpe and Toro, that have both experience and age.  Coincidentally they are arguably our best players on D...unfortunately they have also made some of the most glaring mistakes.  I believe it will work itself out over the next year.  However, next year, when the defense is on level ground, I expect to see a vast improvement.  If not, my torch will be lit.

I love AU football.  I want us to compete each year, just like UA and LSU have been doing the last 3-4 years. However, with only the 2 1/2 classes we've had to recruit, I know we are still rebuilding unlike our rivals which simply reload.  We will be at that level sooner rather than later, but we're just not there yet.               

Let me say I agree with most of what you say since as I read it, you agree with most of what I have said.

You are just willing to be more patient.  I am past that. You are an optimist.  I am a pessimist which is an

optimist with job experience.  And I have had all the experience that  I can stand with the  lack of basic

skills on this team and with,  forgive me if I'm wrong, but a lack of backbone too.

Let me quote Bear Bryant one year after winning a MNC I think I remember correctly, Bama was tied by FSU @ Legion.  I watched the game & saw him ask in near shock as  FSU ran up and down the field,

"What the Hell is going on !?!?!"

What indeed, is going on with us ? 

It is our head coach's job to ask that question and to decide if he thinks what has gone on will change without

an intervention. 

Are we too timid to ask why  or  hold an open discussion as AU supporters or to expect a professional response from our coaches?  I am not.

[bigbird 60,942]

Like I said, I really don't know what to feel.  being frustrated and patient isn't always the best combination, sometimes it is.

[Pichelmayer 0]

really we will have a bad defense as long as we run the wide open spread offense. i love gus but its very hard to have a great d when they're on the field so much. u have to choose which one u want and chiz chose offense

[tigerjeffm 0]

I don't know exactly how I feel about this.  On one hand I expect the best from our team and think that they should be held accountable for there work.  On the other, I try temper those expectations with the reality they are based in.  I have said multiple times our defense has suffered mightily compared to our definition of AU defense for the past 3 years.  However, I also believe that the defense has had a substantial disadvantage as compared to the offense. So, I guess I'm trying to say that while I expect great things, I try to not have unreasonable expectations. Is it unreasonable to be frustrated at what we've had to sit through for 3 years? No. Is it unreasonable to want a great D? No.   Is it unreasonable to expect a great D with the players we have now? In their current state, yes.  Is it unreasonable to expect growth throughout the year? Sort of.  At the beginning of the season, I talked about youth and inexperience, the inexperience factor in gone. Period.  The youth factor is still very much valid.  When I talk about youth I'm not just talking age, I'm talking about the physiology involved.  Our players look like they are getting man-handled, because they are.  They are just not strong enough to hold up to an entire game, especially on the DL. There are two players, Thorpe and Toro, that have both experience and age.  Coincidentally they are arguably our best players on D...unfortunately they have also made some of the most glaring mistakes.  I believe it will work itself out over the next year.  However, next year, when the defense is on level ground, I expect to see a vast improvement.  If not, my torch will be lit.

I love AU football.  I want us to compete each year, just like UA and LSU have been doing the last 3-4 years. However, with only the 2 1/2 classes we've had to recruit, I know we are still rebuilding unlike our rivals which simply reload.  We will be at that level sooner rather than later, but we're just not there yet.               

I agree with everything you said.  I may have given the impression that I expected us to win 10 games or something crazy like that  this year but i didnt expect that at all.  Nor did I expect a great defense.  Any reasonable fan wouldnt.  I know the team is hella young.  There are some missed assignments etc that is to be expected.  I agree that Thorpe and Freeman are two of the best defenders we have.  And sadly I agree that they constantly make terrible mistakes.  That is what drives me crazy.  Watching our LBs play and knowing Some have  been in this system for 3 years now just makes me think they havent had a good teacher. Bad angles and blown assignments are not occasional.  they seem like more of the norm.  I really dont want to sound like a coach basher just for the sake of bashing and I have tried to word my posts as carefully as possible. But honestly the only significant improvement I have seen in three years is Nick F suddenly turning into a monster last year.  We just got to have better. we just have to

[tigerjeffm 0]

really we will have a bad defense as long as we run the wide open spread offense. i love gus but its very hard to have a great d when they're on the field so much. u have to choose which one u want and chiz chose offense

You can have a good defense it doesnt matter what the heck offense you run.  They may not lead the nation in yards allowed but they can be good